KVR Audio

EdgarRothermich · Post by **EdgarRothermich** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:36 pm

OK, now that everybody had their fun in the other post about the Behringer DAW and possible naming games, can we have a serious discussion about it?

First of all - Why a DAW? Is there a trend? The LUNA announcement of UA was already surprising why to enter that already overcrowded market segment. At least, for UA it would make sense because they want to sell their hardware and plugins and in their books they can write off the DAW development costs as advertising.

However, what is in it for Behringer? They have a good run with their hardware and there it all makes sense. But I don't see it in the already highly fragmented DAW market.

Of course, Uli seems to be a smart guy (besides some kork-sniffing mishaps). He should know that making (cloning) a hardware synth is a pretty manageable project. You have your target and you are done when all the hardware components fall into place and it sounds good. Finished. However, embarking on a DAW is like opening Pandora's box.

An interesting hint in the announcement is the "DJ" thing. Maybe that is a different angle. Maybe the DJ thing is popular, but the two-letter word doesn't have a good ring with "real musicians" who use their DAWs to compose music and not just "spin" music from others.

How about Dolby Atmos? Would that be out of Behringer's league? Think big. If Uli really wants to stir up market segments, then put your bulls-eye on the Pro Tools post-production market, the one thing that keeps Pro Tools alive, despite how hard their own beancounter department is trying.

Last thought.
What will this "free DAW" announcement do to the price structure of existing DAWs? Will other players (Cubase, Ableton, etc.) then have to lower their price to be competitive? If they have to cut costs to survive will that backfire on the innovation and further development of their DAWs?

Lots of questions, time will tell.

ashh · Post by **ashh** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:23 pm

This is the first I've heard of it. Free? Does that mean that its users are the product?

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:40 pm

it will probably intergrate with the wing and other future products, better than other daws will.

maybe theyre hoping "free daw" gets them in to the hands of new comers to the music world. then behringer are in their minds when looking at new purchases.

maybe, its all just part of ulis idea of democratising music?
or maybe cynically its a new behringer stpry to kill the last one?

woodsdenis · Post by **woodsdenis** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:11 pm

I guess there will be in app purchases down the line, it will cost a lot to develop and maintain a working DAW across multiple platforms. Best of luck to them.

TheMaestro · Post by **TheMaestro** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:17 pm

Hope it integrates with Facebook and the health features on smart watches.

mcnelson · Post by **mcnelson** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:50 pm

Guessing a hardware controller à la Push / Maschine is on the cards for later then.

EdgarRothermich · Post by **EdgarRothermich** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:57 pm

The refreshing part about Uli is that he doesn't act too "corporate". He thinks and acts outside the box, even if he might step over the line occasionally.

Nothing wrong to keep the industry on the edge and push the competitors. At least better than other big companies just buying up their competitors and consolidate (monopolize) the market.

TheMaestro · Post by **TheMaestro** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:03 pm

EdgarRothermich wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:57 pm The refreshing part about Uli is that he doesn't act too "corporate". He thinks and acts outside the box, even if he might step over the line occasionally.

Nothing wrong to keep the industry on the edge and push the competitors. At least better than other big companies just buying up their competitors and consolidate (monopolize) the market.

Pushing for innovation is one thing. This “we’re cheap, so us against them” schtick is just counterproductive.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:20 pm

I have no idea what it will be like, so have no comment on it. Seems totally pointless for any speculation until some details are released (which prob won't be for at least 12 months)

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm

To have strong opinions without having a clue what's coming...
Possible, but not reasonable.

enroe · Post by **enroe** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:46 pm

EdgarRothermich wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:36 pm Last thought.
What will this "free DAW" announcement do to the price structure of existing DAWs? Will other players (Cubase, Ableton, etc.) then have to lower their price to be competitive?

I think it will not. The reasons are:

1. Behringer will need a lot of time to create a serious DAW. You can't program
a complex thing in one or two years. It will take much longer!

2. There is already one free DAW on the market: Cakewalk by Bandlab. Though this
is a very good DAW - at eye level with the top dogs - it didn't change the market
disruptingly, just because every DAW is so different that a musician has to find "his"
DAW - no matter what the price is. Another good free Behringer DAW will not
change this principle. So some people will be happy with the new Behringer DAW,
but most of them will not. They will stick to their old, long-established program.

So don't be afraid of the new "Behringer Tribe"!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:52 pm

Calenberger wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm To have strong opinions without having a clue what's coming...
Possible, but not reasonable.

pfft! i do it all the time!

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:54 pm

vurt wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:52 pm
Calenberger wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm To have strong opinions without having a clue what's coming...
Possible, but not reasonable.
pfft! i do it all the time!

Yes, and you've sent my MIDI cable thread into exile on Hardware...

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:57 pm

Calenberger wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:54 pm
vurt wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:52 pm
Calenberger wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm To have strong opinions without having a clue what's coming...
Possible, but not reasonable.
pfft! i do it all the time!
Yes, and you've sent my MIDI cable thread into exile on Hardware...

its not exile, its moving to a better neighbourhood

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:59 pm

This feels a bit like Behringer has decided they want to dig a pit, fill it with money, then light it on fire. That said, it's still an interesting prospect. First thing's first:

1. Don't ignore MIDI - You can, and should, start with MIDI 2.0 (with backwards compatibility) right from the start. Don't need a staff view on day one or anything, but do the MIDI thing right from the start, and future development should be easier.

2. Build for large core counts with scalable graphics - again, do this right and you've got a nice base to build off of.

3. Don't worry about supporting old CPU's - another area where I'd be aggressive. Optimize everything using modern compilers (with things like AVX) to improve CPU performance.

4. Support the major control protocols like Eucon, MCU, Faderport, OSC, and of course, MIDI. Don't get hung up on proprietary anything when it comes to control. Create a really kick ass learn/mapping mode.

5. Now build a DAW...

Behringer DAW - Serious discussion (please)