Is dongle illegal ?

[Hink]

man I got a boatload of software that doesn't use a dongle...

[vurt]

no but i beleive dongling without consent is

[fishbowl.tucson.az]

[quote="Steven West"] - Putte

>Okay - so this dongle has 'info' on it.

It has state info on it, which is part of a challenge-response cryptographic system. And it's not just data on the usb key, it can certainly execute some procedure that returns different results every time it runs, based on any number of variables (I think the most common ones have a precise clock, and their security depends on timing.)

Most cracks are accomplished by attacking the code that calls the dongle protection routine -- but the programmers are more clever than that. If you simply cut out the challenge, you only fixed part of the problem -- for instance you didn't put in the block of code that comes from the device or something like that, and your cracked program is mysteriously unstable...

A better approach would be to reverse engineer the dongle itself, but of course, even if that is simple,
the problem escalates from software cracking to hardware manufacturing (or counterfeiting, if you will.)

Yes, if you knew exactly how the dongle worked, and if you had whatever crypto key it contains (which is the big problem) you could certainly make a loopback device (which might just be a software driver to emulate a USB port+device, or it could be a program you run on another computer, something that is routinely done on satellite TV boxes.)

I don't use any dongled software. If we're talking about Cubase, I don't care for it anyway. Magix does everything I ever needed, it's cheap, and I'm allowed to install it on anything I want.

[headquest]

I can see that if you are desktop bound, dongles aren't a particular hassle. It's those of us who are laptop freaks that probably hate dongles more, and find them more annoying. When I go out recording, there's no way I want to take a USB hub full of dongles. The hubs also need plugging in the wall. Hassle

[whyterabbyt]

deastman Musicians are just spoiled. Try working as a graphics professional. Some of my previously dongled software has moved to ethernet-keyed protection, but I still have a long line of parallel port dongles sticking out of my animation system, supporting:

-Maya


I know its only one of them, but you could get the Maya license switched over to use a network card. We have a couple of dongle-locked licenses we use for controlling who uses Maya on laptops (eg for preentations, lectures et.c.) and its quite handy cos we can take them vack (!), but for my home system I have it locked to a £10 network bought specifically for the purpose....

And dongle's are handier than some C/R systems in some ways cos you dont need to reauthorise when you switch/rebuild/change systems....

[HanafiH]

A better approach would be to reverse engineer the dongle itself, but of course, even if that is simple,
the problem escalates from software cracking to hardware manufacturing (or counterfeiting, if you will.)

That won't ever happen because a dongle doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs to be good enough. Good enough in the case (for example) of Cubase is a dongle that takes longer to crack than the lifespan of the fundamental market for the technology refresh.

If it takes six months to break the dongle but two months later another version comes out, with another six months to crack dongle key, the dongle has suceeded in protecting the leading technology edge in the product.

I think Steinberg will eventually acquire a dongle technology that is 'good enough' to protect the lead period on its flagship products. The question is, will that hold their market? There's a theory that more weakly protected products will eventually mass out the market againt more strongly protected products because the mass of crack users forms an invisible network effect. Almost no crack users know how to use ProTools (dongled to its hardware) so they don't have ProTools skills, they don't choose ProTools products if they do purchase and they often support low grade markets around their own specific needs.

[headquest]

as i have pointed a few times recently the following software has NOT been cracked

sx3, halion 3, logic (anything after 6), hypersonic 1.1, culture 1.5

the common thread here - they all use dongles - hmmmmm

I can think of another common thread...

... the word "overpriced" comes to mind.

Perhaps the cost of the dongle pushes the product price up?

[haydxn]

putte!

[vurt]

Now do you keep the weed on the top shelf so short cops can't reach it, or near the bottom for 'easy access'?

no .. its the same as with the dongles: i keep the weed in a rented greenhouse about 68 miles from the dongle-garage .. its all a bit stressy sometimes to manage all this, but then again i just need the space.

[action]currently doing a flyover of stuttgart looking for puttes greenhouse[/action]

[deastman]

I know its only one of them, but you could get the Maya license switched over to use a network card. We have a couple of dongle-locked licenses we use for controlling who uses Maya on laptops (eg for preentations, lectures et.c.) and its quite handy cos we can take them vack (!), but for my home system I have it locked to a £10 network bought specifically for the purpose....

And dongle's are handier than some C/R systems in some ways cos you dont need to reauthorise when you switch/rebuild/change systems....

I don't want to get too far afield from the main topic, but Alias has got to be one of the worst companies as far as license management.

Some background:
First of all, I used to be an Alias (and Wavefront) user for many years, and worked with Maya when it first came out. Eventually we fully switched to 3DS Max, which I personally like much better from an artists perspective. For stupid political reasons, we were recently told to start using Maya again in addition to 3DS Max. Our Maya software was brought up to date, and we installed the new copies they shipped out to us.

There were no authorization codes of any sort in the packaging they sent. We were unable to obtain codes from their web tool. Apparently our reseller should have provided them. Eventually I got Alias to email me some encryption codes, but they didn't work. Turns out they had one copy registered to a dongle we never owned. I read them the numbers of the dongles we did own, and they said it was completely wrong, and we should have at least one more dongle in our possession. They suggested that we needed to submit an insurance claim against the loss of this non-existant dongle. Finally, after signing our names in blood, they graciously allowed us to transfer ownership from the non-existant dongle to one we actually owned. The other license turned out to be tied to the ethernet address of the wrong machine. After all of this was straightened out, Maya still refused to launch. After a couple more calls to support, it turned out there was a problem with our Sentinel drivers. But in the end (approximately one week after installing the software), we did get Maya up and running again. And now that its over, I really do love the sheer power of my animation software... 3DS Max, that is!

[Karbon L. Forms]

as i have pointed a few times recently the following software has NOT been cracked

sx3, halion 3, logic (anything after 6), hypersonic 1.1, culture 1.5

the common thread here - they all use dongles - hmmmmm

yet

[tetraplan]

Musicians are just spoiled. Try working as a graphics professional. Some of my previously dongled software has moved to ethernet-keyed protection, but I still have a long line of parallel port dongles sticking out of my animation system, supporting:

[...]

-After Effects

After Effects is dongled now?
Damn, I was thinking of maybe getting it next year.

Groet, Erik

[whyterabbyt]

deastman quoth

I don't want to get too far afield from the main topic, but Alias has got to be one of the worst companies as far as license management.

I've not had a problem with them, to be honest; they did want to charge us a relocation fee once when we had to swap network card on our floating license server, but I sneakily managed to sort that out, and ever since then we've had any relocation fees nulled on account of being a poor academic institute.

But yeah, that sounds hellish.

[Shane Sanders]

deastman quoth

I don't want to get too far afield from the main topic, but Alias has got to be one of the worst companies as far as license management.

I've not had a problem with them, to be honest; they did want to charge us a relocation fee once when we had to swap network card on our floating license server, but I sneakily managed to sort that out, and ever since then we've had any relocation fees nulled on account of being a poor academic institute.

But yeah, that sounds hellish.

I used to use Alias|Wavefront software at school. The ultimate dongle was the SGI machine itself! At 10k a box, not many people could do much against that.

[Steven West]

Thanks Fishbowl and Headquest. So there's just no EASY way of getting around a 'dongle' thingy? Legitimately I mean.

And Headquest, you mentioned USB Hub. Every time I install software or peripherals, it advises me to 'disengage ALL USB Hubs' and/or 'Hubs are not advisable' and so on. But you find a USB Hub to be okay with your lappy?

Maybe I should secure the patent on my 'Dongle Den' idea? A 2U Rackmount bay with 450 USB slots so Putte wouldn't have to travel so far to get his weed? Just move it into cannisters, and bring all the dongles home then?

Ooops, here comes another idea - A Cannabis Cannister. Dual locks, AND emits NO odors.

How many can I put you in for Putte?