Anything MIDI - New Plugin Ideas

[David]

"The Melda one is much better again, but that might be windows only"

Nope, definitely cross platform:)

[fairlyclose]

"The Melda one is much better again, but that might be windows only"

Nope, definitely cross platform:)

worth learning the Melda interface style just for that one plugin

[David]

Actually, this has reminded me that the one thing I'm always wishing for is a really accurate, easy to use, and universal envelope-follower/side-chain/whatever thingy that would simplify stealing and then converting ANY signal into a MIDI-CC signal. That doesn't cost $100 either, like the BlueCat stuff.

Also, I'm always dreaming about ways to access all the digital to CV and back again tools the computer-using hardware synth folks keep getting, but optimized for use only between apps, and only in the box. I'll NEVER get any more hardware, but so many digital tools are spitting out "CV" these days and I want at it, too! Surely somebody will soon leverage MIDI.2 to do that; why not you?

[fairlyclose]

Actually, this has reminded me that the one thing I'm always wishing for is a really accurate, easy to use, and universal envelope-follower/side-chain/whatever thingy that would simplify stealing and then converting ANY signal into a MIDI-CC signal. That doesn't cost $100 either, like the BlueCat stuff.

Also, I'm always dreaming about ways to access all the digital to CV and back again tools the computer-using hardware synth folks keep getting, but optimized for use only between apps, and only in the box. I'll NEVER get any more hardware, but so many digital tools are spitting out "CV" these days and I want at it, too! Surely somebody will soon leverage MIDI.2 to do that; why not you?

the Melda MCCGenerator has sidechain envelope following - have you tried it yet?

[David]

Actually, this has reminded me that the one thing I'm always wishing for is a really accurate, easy to use, and universal envelope-follower/side-chain/whatever thingy that would simplify stealing and then converting ANY signal into a MIDI-CC signal. That doesn't cost $100 either, like the BlueCat stuff.
…

the Melda MCCGenerator has sidechain envelope following - have you tried it yet?

Yup, worked OK, a bit messy, and it was a LOT of work to get it set up, esp. in Logic:

viewtopic.php?f=138&t=534403&p=7598569& ... n#p7598569

Ease of use FTW:)

[fairlyclose]

Actually, this has reminded me that the one thing I'm always wishing for is a really accurate, easy to use, and universal envelope-follower/side-chain/whatever thingy that would simplify stealing and then converting ANY signal into a MIDI-CC signal. That doesn't cost $100 either, like the BlueCat stuff.
…

the Melda MCCGenerator has sidechain envelope following - have you tried it yet?

Yup, worked OK, a bit messy, and it was a LOT of work to get it set up, esp. in Logic:

viewtopic.php?f=138&t=534403&p=7598569& ... n#p7598569

Ease of use FTW:)

much easier in Reaper, but still have to get over the learning curve for Melda stuff - but once you do, every single plugin has the same architecture. I think the Melda dev has been very clever with his methodology

[fairlyclose]

here is another Midi item I would like - I wrote scripts to do this in Matlab/Octave but a dedicated plugin would be good

take any midi file or selection from a file and
1. permute the notes or chords keeping the rhythm the same
2. permute the timing keeping the notes/chords in the same order
Note I am talking about permutation not randomisation - ie shuffle what is there

Also...
take any two midi files and swap the notes and or timing between the files

Also, when using randomisation rather than using an equal distribution or a guassian distribution, for the love of god please use, or at least make as an option, the beta distribution - it is way more musically relevant. Pseudo code is available in https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-S ... 0028646827 but if you dont have it I can send it

[David]

Actually, this has reminded me that the one thing I'm always wishing for is a really accurate, easy to use, and universal envelope-follower/side-chain/whatever thingy that would simplify stealing and then converting ANY signal into a MIDI-CC signal. That doesn't cost $100 either, like the BlueCat stuff.

[EDIT: or require you to have Live Suite!]
…

the Melda MCCGenerator has sidechain envelope following - have you tried it yet?

Yup, worked OK, a bit messy, and it was a LOT of work to get it set up, esp. in Logic:

viewtopic.php?f=138&t=534403&p=7598569& ... n#p7598569

Ease of use FTW:)

much easier in Reaper, but still have to get over the learning curve for Melda stuff - but once you do, every single plugin has the same architecture. I think the Melda dev has been very clever with his methodology

It's not the Melda interface that made this a pain to set up; fortunately I've already made it to the opposite shore re: Melda, and like it over there:)

No, it was how much effort it took just to get the routing and configuring of all the psrts needed, clearly different in various daws, as in my post; I did also try the Reaper demo using it to get Melda LFOs to become MIDI modulators long before the MCCGen came out…which was even more painful! When MCCGen arrived, I thought it was a miracle!! But it wound up being still so elaborate to use in Logic that I actually never do use it, even after paying for the "full" version of this "free" device. Stlll, kudos to Vojtech for making it at all!

What I'd like is an AU/VST more exactly like REF from K-devices, shown in the video below, which is only for M4L, but does essentially just what I describe. It works much more easily and with much more well-considered controls and options. Again of course, all DAWs are quite different in what they will allow you to connect, but solving, and adapting to, these issues is what I'd expect from a "real" plugin, and which isn't exactly there in MCCGen. I want something I can just slap onto any track in any DAW to extract MIDI CC data from it and send that anywhere.



Actually, I think a good strategy for the OP might be simply to select some of the best things that you can do with M4L devices and make VSTs/AUs that do the same things! Like TIP for instance, bundled with REF, a plugin randomizer, snapshot-maker and -sequencer:

[David]

here is another Midi item I would like - I wrote scripts to do this in Matlab/Octave but a dedicated plugin would be good

take any midi file or selection from a file and
1. permute the notes or chords keeping the rhythm the same
2. permute the timing keeping the notes/chords in the same order
Note I am talking about permutation not randomisation - ie shuffle what is there

Also...
take any two midi files and swap the notes and or timing between the files

Also, when using randomisation rather than using an equal distribution or a guassian distribution, for the love of god please use, or at least make as an option, the beta distribution - it is way more musically relevant. Pseudo code is available in https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-S ... 0028646827 but if you dont have it I can send it

LOVE these ideas as plugins; would be so cool to have a suite of MIDI FX with more complex functions than are typical, that didn't have to be assembled from generic parts, as in, say, Architect so far anyway, or M4L, but could be just snapped together like AU MIDI FX in Logic. I don't quite see how to get two MIDI files interacting with each other just using a plugin on a DAW track (you can already "take any two midi files and swap the notes and or timing between the files" in Rapid Composer, but that's a whole separate MIDI app, not just a plugin), but that's why I'm just a buyer of this stuff, not a developer!

[fairlyclose]

here is another Midi item I would like - I wrote scripts to do this in Matlab/Octave but a dedicated plugin would be good

take any midi file or selection from a file and
1. permute the notes or chords keeping the rhythm the same
2. permute the timing keeping the notes/chords in the same order
Note I am talking about permutation not randomisation - ie shuffle what is there

Also...
take any two midi files and swap the notes and or timing between the files

Also, when using randomisation rather than using an equal distribution or a guassian distribution, for the love of god please use, or at least make as an option, the beta distribution - it is way more musically relevant. Pseudo code is available in https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-S ... 0028646827 but if you dont have it I can send it

LOVE these ideas as plugins; would be so cool to have a suite of MIDI FX with more complex functions than are typical, that didn't have to be assembled from generic parts, as in, say, Architect so far anyway, or M4L, but could be just snapped together like AU MIDI FX in Logic. I don't quite see how to get two MIDI files interacting with each other just using a plugin on a DAW track (you can already "take any two midi files and swap the notes and or timing between the files" in Rapid Composer, but that's a whole separate MIDI app, not just a plugin), but that's why I'm just a buyer of this stuff, not a developer!

I didnt realise Rapid COmposer allowed that - will have a look at it now. [EDIT: lol I can't afford that, I would rather drag out my scripts ]

The lack of people using the beta distribution is a real oversight I dont understand - it is trivial coding

[David]

Actually, I CAN see how a plugin could allow you to "apply" the rhythm of one MIDI clip to the pitches of another. The timing of note events in one file could be side-chained into another file, triggering its pitches, once again easily done already in M4L:

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/5 ... ch-stepper

"Pitch Stepper is something like a step sequencer, but it’s driven by note input rather than a clock. It plays a sequence of pitches in order, advancing one step each time it receives an incoming MIDI note.

Pitch Stepper is inspired by synths and sequencers with trigger inputs, like the Roland SH-101 and many modular and semi-modular devices.

Pitch Stepper’s steps are “programmed” by selecting notes in a MIDI clip. As a result, it has no fixed length and is fully polyphonic."

Rapid Comp doesn't do that; it can capture the rhythm of a dragged in clip to which you can apply all sorts of pitch transformations; I don't think you can actually map the pitches from one file onto another, per se.

[Kalamata Kid]

here is another Midi item I would like - I wrote scripts to do this in Matlab/Octave but a dedicated plugin would be good

take any midi file or selection from a file and
1. permute the notes or chords keeping the rhythm the same
2. permute the timing keeping the notes/chords in the same order
Note I am talking about permutation not randomisation - ie shuffle what is there

Also...
take any two midi files and swap the notes and or timing between the files

Also, when using randomisation rather than using an equal distribution or a guassian distribution, for the love of god please use, or at least make as an option, the beta distribution - it is way more musically relevant. Pseudo code is available in https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-S ... 0028646827 but if you dont have it I can send it

fairlyclose,

I like your ideas. Looks like you have given this some thought.

How about have a choice to either permute or randomize shuffle. To be able to control to what degree to shuffle. My favorite randomizer is the Absynth Mutator https://ask.audio/articles/the-amazing- ... -absynth-5. It often produces interesting musical results.

Yea, merge or morph two midi files. I suppose first thing is to make both the same key. Would be great if had a choice to be done in real time with some degree of control of the morph. Get variations on notes, chords, length, timing, key, velocity, spread etc.

[fairlyclose]

here is another Midi item I would like - I wrote scripts to do this in Matlab/Octave but a dedicated plugin would be good

take any midi file or selection from a file and
1. permute the notes or chords keeping the rhythm the same
2. permute the timing keeping the notes/chords in the same order
Note I am talking about permutation not randomisation - ie shuffle what is there

Also...
take any two midi files and swap the notes and or timing between the files

Also, when using randomisation rather than using an equal distribution or a guassian distribution, for the love of god please use, or at least make as an option, the beta distribution - it is way more musically relevant. Pseudo code is available in https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-S ... 0028646827 but if you dont have it I can send it

fairlyclose,

I like your ideas. Looks like you have given this some thought.

How about have a choice to either permute or randomize shuffle. To be able to control to what degree to shuffle. My favorite randomizer is the Absynth Mutator https://ask.audio/articles/the-amazing- ... -absynth-5. It often produces interesting musical results.

Yea, merge or morph two midi files. I suppose first thing is to make both the same key. Would be great if had a choice to be done in real time with some degree of control of the morph. Get variations on notes, chords, length, timing, key, velocity, spread etc.

I think permute / randomise shuffle is what i have scripted myself - but to be able to influence the degree of shuffling would be nice - probably easiest to do that via selection tools eg select a third of notes, exclude first beat of bar etc etc I could script that - Riffer has that sort of facility now - Riffer is a great simple littl eutility that ends up being incredibly powerful because it is so tighly focussed and simple

merging files is a bit different and not what I mentioned - my script takes the rhythm of one file and then plays it using the notes of another file - there is no need to worry about keys at all. (And I seldom think interms of keys or traidtional harmony anyway, certainly not from the point of view of how I get ideas) Now if you were to morph or merge in your sense (I think) that would be completely different. I am not sure useful to me.

[fairlyclose]

Actually, I CAN see how a plugin could allow you to "apply" the rhythm of one MIDI clip to the pitches of another. The timing of note events in one file could be side-chained into another file, triggering its pitches, once again easily done already in M4L:

https://maxforlive.com/library/device/5 ... ch-stepper

"Pitch Stepper is something like a step sequencer, but it’s driven by note input rather than a clock. It plays a sequence of pitches in order, advancing one step each time it receives an incoming MIDI note.

Pitch Stepper is inspired by synths and sequencers with trigger inputs, like the Roland SH-101 and many modular and semi-modular devices.

Pitch Stepper’s steps are “programmed” by selecting notes in a MIDI clip. As a result, it has no fixed length and is fully polyphonic."

Rapid Comp doesn't do that; it can capture the rhythm of a dragged in clip to which you can apply all sorts of pitch transformations; I don't think you can actually map the pitches from one file onto another, per se.

looks like I will have to go the M4L route - very attractive - just a shame Live seems fairly primitive for audio editing. I'd love to have a one solution DAW
But first I Ill see if Loomer Architect ever becomes useful - or more to the point - see if I live long enough for Loomer to actually deliver what he more or less promised years ago. At the moment Architect sits as my most annoyingly useless purchase

[David]

"Rapid Comp doesn't do that; it can capture the rhythm of a dragged in clip to which you can apply all sorts of pitch transformations; I don't think you can actually map the pitches from one file onto another, per se."

Actually, you CAN apply new rhythms to an existing file, either from other MIDI files or from generated rhythms, so, yeah:)