Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
User avatar
BlackRooster
KVRist
151 posts since 24 Sep, 2015 from Wuppertal, Germany

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 am

Discount Fraud Notification:

With anger and sadness I will have to inform everyone about a discount fraud that we are experiencing. We have been so kind to offer an upgrade path (which will always be available) to users, who already own some plug-ins of the collection. With this single plug-in 90% upgrade voucher, people have unfortunately been able to also take 90% off the #STAYHOME bundle, which would then return in a 99% voucher overall. With this dirty trick, that of course has only been possible due to technical issues on our site, some users are STEALING not only from our company, but from the spirit of this campaign. I am shocked that people (users we have had great conversation with in the past, about how much they love the company and identify with the brand) would even be so sick and try to betray us, without even notifying us afterwards about the issue - as if we were so dumb and not notice. I take this very personal and everyone shall be warned: Whoever tries to compromise this or any related campaign by such behaviour, will be deleted from our platform immediately!
Black Rooster Audio
https://blackroosteraudio.com
Wuppertal, Germany

db3
KVRAF
2327 posts since 22 Aug, 2012

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:13 am

That's disappointing. :roll:
Where is this single 90% voucher for existing customers?

User avatar
BlackRooster
KVRist
151 posts since 24 Sep, 2015 from Wuppertal, Germany

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:15 am

db3 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:13 am
That's disappointing. :roll:
Where is this single 90% voucher for existing customers?
You can request that from me via helpdesk (at) blackroosteraudio.com
Black Rooster Audio
https://blackroosteraudio.com
Wuppertal, Germany

User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
3879 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am

BlackRooster wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 am
Discount Fraud Notification:

With anger and sadness I will have to inform everyone about a discount fraud that we are experiencing. We have been so kind to offer an upgrade path (which will always be available) to users, who already own some plug-ins of the collection. With this single plug-in 90% upgrade voucher, people have unfortunately been able to also take 90% off the #STAYHOME bundle, which would then return in a 99% voucher overall. With this dirty trick, that of course has only been possible due to technical issues on our site, some users are STEALING not only from our company, but from the spirit of this campaign. I am shocked that people (users we have had great conversation with in the past, about how much they love the company and identify with the brand) would even be so sick and try to betray us, without even notifying us afterwards about the issue - as if we were so dumb and not notice. I take this very personal and everyone shall be warned: Whoever tries to compromise this or any related campaign by such behaviour, will be deleted from our platform immediately!
you mean they will be losing all plugins? such a strategy might get you into legal trouble, so you might want to rethink the response (however understandable it is!).
From Russia with love
Our online jams (if you speak Russian - you're welcome to join!)

User avatar
scarlettsroom
KVRer
10 posts since 29 Feb, 2020 from Madrid

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:55 am

Very good deal. I'll have to check it out the demos!

User avatar
scarlettsroom
KVRer
10 posts since 29 Feb, 2020 from Madrid

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:56 am

However, how much time is it going to be the offer?

midi_transmission
KVRist
415 posts since 13 Feb, 2013

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:02 pm

BlackRooster wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 am
Discount Fraud Notification:

With anger and sadness I will have to inform everyone about a discount fraud that we are experiencing. We have been so kind to offer an upgrade path (which will always be available) to users, who already own some plug-ins of the collection. With this single plug-in 90% upgrade voucher, people have unfortunately been able to also take 90% off the #STAYHOME bundle, which would then return in a 99% voucher overall. With this dirty trick, that of course has only been possible due to technical issues on our site, some users are STEALING not only from our company, but from the spirit of this campaign. I am shocked that people (users we have had great conversation with in the past, about how much they love the company and identify with the brand) would even be so sick and try to betray us, without even notifying us afterwards about the issue - as if we were so dumb and not notice. I take this very personal and everyone shall be warned: Whoever tries to compromise this or any related campaign by such behaviour, will be deleted from our platform immediately!
Totally understand the frustration! But have you said that it should not be used for the bundle? Just saying, maybe some people stumbled upon the discount by accident and thought that it is too good to be true and there was no bad intention behind it in this moment, because they had not thought about the whole picture like you do? Like seeing a low price in a shop?

Maybe it's possible to work something out with these people afterwards?

disclaimer: I have not bought anything so far, therefore it's just a thought for peace and not to defend anyone.

vitocorleone123
KVRist
460 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm

Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am
you mean they will be losing all plugins? such a strategy might get you into legal trouble, so you might want to rethink the response (however understandable it is!).
I didn't take it that way. I took it to mean that they wouldn't be able to license anything new in the future, wouldn't ever get support, and maybe wouldn't even get plugin updates. I'm all for it. Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

That said, could any of those people have acted without knowing they were "abusing" the system?

Stand together, or fall apart.

User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
3879 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:22 pm

vitocorleone123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm
Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am
you mean they will be losing all plugins? such a strategy might get you into legal trouble, so you might want to rethink the response (however understandable it is!).
I didn't take it that way. I took it to mean that they wouldn't be able to license anything new in the future, wouldn't ever get support, and maybe wouldn't even get plugin updates. I'm all for it. Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

That said, could any of those people have acted without knowing they were "abusing" the system?

Stand together, or fall apart.
i took "deleting from the platform" to mean "deleting the account". you can't delete the account without also deleting all of the licenses associated with it. hence, any person removed from such platforms, would lose access even to those plugins that they have bought in the past, not just the bundle, and would not be able to activate previously owned plugins going forward.

do you have any other interpretation?
vitocorleone123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm
Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

Stand together, or fall apart.
no need for platitudes, and no need false dichotomies - the two options aren't just "free for all and people taking advantage of BRA should be rewarded" and "take whatever action you want against the offender". just because i disagree with the proposed reaction doesn't mean i am therefore "rewarding" people who take unfair advantage of the offer.

i fully agree with the sentiment behind the action, and i agree that it's appalling, but the response must be 1) proportionate, and 2) within the bounds of the law.

"proportionate" in my view means revoking any licenses gained as part of the bundle, and refunding the transaction. you can't revoke licenses that have nothing to do with the transaction in question. that would be disproportionate response. the only circumstance when a complete revocation of all licenses and deleting the account would be acceptable was if the person was caught distributing the licenses on piracy sites, or has taken other actions that amount to outright fraud - however this isn't the case here.

also, i'm not a lawyer, but i can foresee a scenario where unilaterally revoking the licenses owned by a person could run afoul of some consumer protection laws. so, while i fully stand behind Black Rooster Audio's condemnation of such actions, i cannot in good faith recommend the approach taken.
Last edited by Burillo on Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
From Russia with love
Our online jams (if you speak Russian - you're welcome to join!)

User avatar
BlackRooster
KVRist
151 posts since 24 Sep, 2015 from Wuppertal, Germany

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:26 pm

vitocorleone123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm
Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am
you mean they will be losing all plugins? such a strategy might get you into legal trouble, so you might want to rethink the response (however understandable it is!).
I didn't take it that way. I took it to mean that they wouldn't be able to license anything new in the future, wouldn't ever get support, and maybe wouldn't even get plugin updates. I'm all for it. Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

That said, could any of those people have acted without knowing they were "abusing" the system?

Stand together, or fall apart.
The vouchers have been handed out on personal request ONLY and for the usage of single plugin purchase. However, fraudulent users will lose their account with us - they can make use of their existing serial, but no support, updates or purchase in the future whatsoever. I will point that out here and in future emails as a warning. Just trying to be fair over the many other users.
Black Rooster Audio
https://blackroosteraudio.com
Wuppertal, Germany

User avatar
BlackRooster
KVRist
151 posts since 24 Sep, 2015 from Wuppertal, Germany

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:31 pm

Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:22 pm
vitocorleone123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm
Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am
you mean they will be losing all plugins? such a strategy might get you into legal trouble, so you might want to rethink the response (however understandable it is!).
I didn't take it that way. I took it to mean that they wouldn't be able to license anything new in the future, wouldn't ever get support, and maybe wouldn't even get plugin updates. I'm all for it. Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

That said, could any of those people have acted without knowing they were "abusing" the system?

Stand together, or fall apart.
i took "deleting from the platform" to mean "deleting the account". you can't delete the account without also deleting all of the licenses associated with it. hence, any person removed from such platforms, would lose access even to those plugins that they have bought in the past, not just the bundle, and would not be able to activate previously owned plugins going forward.

do you have any other interpretation?
vitocorleone123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm
Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

Stand together, or fall apart.
no need for platitudes, and no need false dichotomies - the two options aren't just "free for all and people taking advantage of BRA should be rewarded" and "take whatever action you want against the offender". just because i disagree with the proposed reaction doesn't mean i am therefore "rewarding" people who take unfair advantage of the offer.

i fully agree with the sentiment behind the action, and i agree that it's appalling, but the response must be 1) proportionate, and 2) within the bounds of the law.

"proportionate" in my view means revoking any licenses gained as part of the bundle, and refunding the transaction. you can't revoke licenses that have nothing to do with the transaction in question. that would be disproportionate response. the only circumstance when a complete revocation of all licenses and deleting the account would be acceptable was if the person was caught distributing the licenses on piracy sites, or has taken other actions that amount to outright fraud - however this isn't the case here.

also, i'm not a lawyer, but i can foresee a scenario where unilaterally revoking the licenses owned by a person could run afoul of some consumer protection laws. so, while i fully stand behind Black Rooster Audio's condemnation of such actions, i cannot in good faith recommend the approach taken.
Maybe you are right! I am just calming down right now. The users are given time to explain themselves. I just want to offer a fair deal here for everyone.
Black Rooster Audio
https://blackroosteraudio.com
Wuppertal, Germany

midi_transmission
KVRist
415 posts since 13 Feb, 2013

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:47 pm

BlackRooster wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:31 pm
Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:22 pm
vitocorleone123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm
Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:38 am
you mean they will be losing all plugins? such a strategy might get you into legal trouble, so you might want to rethink the response (however understandable it is!).
I didn't take it that way. I took it to mean that they wouldn't be able to license anything new in the future, wouldn't ever get support, and maybe wouldn't even get plugin updates. I'm all for it. Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

That said, could any of those people have acted without knowing they were "abusing" the system?

Stand together, or fall apart.
i took "deleting from the platform" to mean "deleting the account". you can't delete the account without also deleting all of the licenses associated with it. hence, any person removed from such platforms, would lose access even to those plugins that they have bought in the past, not just the bundle, and would not be able to activate previously owned plugins going forward.

do you have any other interpretation?
vitocorleone123 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:08 pm
Don't reward people taking advantage of others, let alone people taking advantage of someone trying to do a nice thing - not just for themselves, but for others.

Stand together, or fall apart.
no need for platitudes, and no need false dichotomies - the two options aren't just "free for all and people taking advantage of BRA should be rewarded" and "take whatever action you want against the offender". just because i disagree with the proposed reaction doesn't mean i am therefore "rewarding" people who take unfair advantage of the offer.

i fully agree with the sentiment behind the action, and i agree that it's appalling, but the response must be 1) proportionate, and 2) within the bounds of the law.

"proportionate" in my view means revoking any licenses gained as part of the bundle, and refunding the transaction. you can't revoke licenses that have nothing to do with the transaction in question. that would be disproportionate response. the only circumstance when a complete revocation of all licenses and deleting the account would be acceptable was if the person was caught distributing the licenses on piracy sites, or has taken other actions that amount to outright fraud - however this isn't the case here.

also, i'm not a lawyer, but i can foresee a scenario where unilaterally revoking the licenses owned by a person could run afoul of some consumer protection laws. so, while i fully stand behind Black Rooster Audio's condemnation of such actions, i cannot in good faith recommend the approach taken.
Maybe you are right! I am just calming down right now. The users are given time to explain themselves. I just want to offer a fair deal here for everyone.
Good aproach! As I said...possible that it was just not thinking a moment without a bad intention.

Coming back to the plugins. I loving magnetite. It has something special I'm find hard to get with my other plugins.I'm not sure if real tape does it as I thought tape will smooth transients, but it sound so incredible good on the kick drum :tu: . Kicks are getting a pleasant very pronounced punch which is not just a low end boost. I'm not able to get this sound with other tape emulation or EQ or compressors or transient designers. I'm not sure what magnetite does, but it's special for me.

User avatar
Burillo
KVRAF
3879 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:01 pm

BlackRooster wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:31 pm
Maybe you are right! I am just calming down right now. The users are given time to explain themselves. I just want to offer a fair deal here for everyone.
i'm glad you're taking it this way. all of us are on your side, but i personally wouldn't like it if you got into legal trouble because of decisions made in the heat of the moment. you'd think that as German you would know better :D
From Russia with love
Our online jams (if you speak Russian - you're welcome to join!)

User avatar
BlackRooster
KVRist
151 posts since 24 Sep, 2015 from Wuppertal, Germany

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:07 pm

Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:01 pm
BlackRooster wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:31 pm
Maybe you are right! I am just calming down right now. The users are given time to explain themselves. I just want to offer a fair deal here for everyone.
i'm glad you're taking it this way. all of us are on your side, but i personally wouldn't like it if you got into legal trouble because of decisions made in the heat of the moment. you'd think that as German you would know better :D
As a German, I don't get jokes :D
Black Rooster Audio
https://blackroosteraudio.com
Wuppertal, Germany

User avatar
plexuss
KVRAF
3653 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Black Rooster Audio offers the #STAYHOME BUNDLE

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:46 pm

BlackRooster wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:07 pm
Burillo wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:01 pm
BlackRooster wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:31 pm
Maybe you are right! I am just calming down right now. The users are given time to explain themselves. I just want to offer a fair deal here for everyone.
i'm glad you're taking it this way. all of us are on your side, but i personally wouldn't like it if you got into legal trouble because of decisions made in the heat of the moment. you'd think that as German you would know better :D
As a German, I don't get jokes :D
j/k: How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb?
A: They are very efficient and don’t have a sense of humour, so, one!

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