BitWig vs FL Studio (linear vs mixer/loop oriented)

[antic604]

^^^ Reason supports both methods

Read @Trancit's whole post - it's not at all what he meant by "loop-based" and Reason doesn't do that. There's a very strict relation in Reason between tracks and instruments. It allows for some instruments to play notes from patterns rather than clips, but so does Studio One v4 for example.

As always, you offer an unrelated post to show off your knowledge.

[Trancit]

^^^ Reason supports both methods
...

It doesn´t... draggin in a synth/sampler/VSTi creates automatically a track for this instrument and you can only use this track and mixer channel (excluding grouping and sends) for this instrument, doesn´t it??
Draggin an audio clip onto a track automatically uses the corresponding mixer channel for all instances of this or other audio clips on this track, doesn´t it??

The main difference between FLS and a normal DAW is that all available Playlist tracks are already there... you cannot add more but you can freely use them in any way you like and can imagine...

All the Mixer Channels are already there... you cannot add more but you can route anything to anything without wonky workarounds
All the available Patterns are already there (even if empty and not shown in the list until you tell it so) you cannot add more... but you can use them for any generator you like and as many of them any time...

This might change in future but for now it´s like it is... (as there are plans to make FLS grow dynamically too)
A normal DAW grows purely dynamically... more than 999 independent midi clips... no problem...
More than 125 Mixer Channels... no problem
More than 500 Tracks... with ease...

Triggering 50 different instruments from one midi clip and just 20 with the next and routing the outputs of each instrument to a seperate mixer channel... quite tricky in a normal DAW... completely free arranging of clips from any track you like... mostly impossible...

[xbitz]

^^^ Reason supports both methods
...

It doesn´t... draggin in a synth/sampler/VSTi creates automatically a track for this instrument and you can only use this track and mixer channel (excluding grouping and sends) for this instrument, doesn´t it??

instruments in Reason have track independent note/and other inputs or can use Combinator(wrapper) devices which can wrap the original instrument and also have independent track inputs or there are some pattern-based "player device" note-source device which pattern selector can be automated from other track


Matrix on the video has own pattern selector track so can be used as pattern-based note source or modulator device
or

Sequences, which is a poly-pattern device https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... sequences/, has a workflow which very similarly as patterns work in FL Studio

[antic604]

Every other DAW is TRACK BASED which isn´t the case for FL Studio which is called PATTERN BASED...

This means in a "normal" or "linear" DAW if you want to do something you first have to create a track... instrument track, audio track, hybrid track or like in Reaper just a track... ... and every editing you do is based just on this track, which has a fixed mixer track for any audio it produces...

In FL Studio instead of having to create a track, you insert generators to produce sound or automation...There are 3 different kind of generators in FL Studio... Instrument, Audio and Automation generators... Instrument generators hold their trigger data in Patterns, which easily can combine the trigger notes for hundreds of instruments which otoh can be routed to any mixer track you like, while patterns, audio clips and automation clips can be freely arranged in the Playlist to your liking...

Damn, this is such a great description! It makes a lot of sense in its own chaotic crazy way

I can't stop thinking about it and was just a moment ago to the IL shop comparing different editions...

Pray for me to resist the urge

[kovacs]

What about it? Unless the instrument plays a solo they otherwise play & transpose loops.

As a trained musician I think this is a disingenuous way of putting it. A "loop" in the context of a DAW is a recording or sequence that is repeated exactly the same every time. When a musician performs, there is no such thing as a "loop" but continuous playing and repeats.

Repetition can be called "looping" in a sense, but it is not similar to "a loop" in this discussion.

There is nothing ethically or morally wrong here, it's just semantics of course. But performance is not the same as playing back a recording.

As for the actual topic here: I find Ableton Live to be a perfect way to create entire track structures through looping, and Logic Pro X to be a great tool for working with entire tracks.

[Trancit]

instruments in Reason have track independent note/and other inputs or can use Combinator(wrapper) devices which can wrap the original instrument and also have independent track inputs or there are some pattern-based "player device" note-source device which pattern selector can be automated from other track
...

You don´t get the point...

Every generator in FL Studio can be triggered by Midi FX too but this isn´t the point...

In Reason every instrument (beside any Player devices and i.e. Matrix) can be triggered just from this track only and if you want to trigger 20 instruments from one midi clip you have to put them all into one combinator... these are all workarounds and has nothing in common with pattern based workflow where nothing is any track related...
Nothing is bound to any track from the start up ...neither to any "Midi" track nor to any mixer channel nor to any playlist track...

This differs in workflow like riding a bicycle vs. bungee jumping and isn´t comparable at all...

Of course you can mimic this workflow somehow either way but from it´s definition there are no similarities at all beside that you compose and produce with all of them... this is day and night...

[antic604]

Repetition can be called "looping" in a sense, but it is not similar to "a loop" in this discussion.

Oh for sure, I agree! Same like a good electronic music producer will add small variations to the loop either via automation, modulation (cyclic or random) or manual edits to the MIDI, synth or FX parameters. Hence I replaced "loop-based" with "riff-, sequence-, motiff-, hook- based" as I feel it better explains what I meant - a repeating patterns, but not carbon copies thereof

I'm just saying that all music is primarily based on repetitions and otherwise it wouldn't work (as well as it does).

But we're digressing

[xbitz]

instruments in Reason have track independent note/and other inputs or can use Combinator(wrapper) devices which can wrap the original instrument and also have independent track inputs or there are some pattern-based "player device" note-source device which pattern selector can be automated from other track
...

You don´t get the point...

Every generator in FL Studio can be triggered by Midi FX too but this isn´t the point...

In Reason every instrument (beside any Player devices and i.e. Matrix) can be triggered just from this track only and if you want to trigger 20 instruments from one midi clip you have to put them all into one combinator...

nope just one Distributor in poly mode (to disable its voice splitting)... https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... stributor/ but don't want to start a topic about it I've got it what you want to say

[mouse clicker]

Wrong, Jazz imparts a lot of improve and playing off each other. You really should try to understand the interworkings of Jazz, it can be quite an educational experience on a larger scale of musical theory.

If jazz (or any music, really) didn't have any repeating elements and each note & sequence would be unique, you probably wouldn't be able to remember any of it.

A little research and education will lead you to the correct terms and claims. It's not a good idea to spread misinformation or silly rumors from uneducated guesses.

"Jazz is characterized by swing and blue notes, call and response vocals, polyrhythms and improvisation. Jazz has roots in West African cultural and musical expression, and in African-American music traditions including blues and ragtime, as well as European military band music. Intellectuals around the world have hailed jazz as "one of America's original art forms"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz


You should at least try and give a little respect to "one of America's original art forms".

[Trancit]

...
nope just one Distributor in poly mode (to disable its voice splitting)... https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... stributor/ but don't want to start a topic about it I've got it what you want to say

let me say it differently:

...
In Reason every instrument (beside any Player devices and i.e. Matrix) is meant to be triggered just from this track only without any wonky workaround and if you want to trigger 20 instruments from one midi clip you have to put them all into one combinator...

[antic604]

You should at least try and give a little respect to "one of America's original art forms".

Please link me to a jazz tune that doesn't have any repetitions. I'll wait.

[xbitz]

...
nope just one Distributor in poly mode (to disable its voice splitting)... https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... stributor/ but don't want to start a topic about it I've got it what you want to say

let me say it differently:

...
In Reason every instrument (beside any Player devices and i.e. Matrix) is meant to be triggered just from this track only without any wonky workaround and if you want to trigger 20 instruments from one midi clip you have to put them all into one combinator...

but I love wonky workarounds it's from a pre player devices era

pattern based note triggered chord chopping:

and before the poly-cables era too, some devices support workarounds a very fun way

[Trancit]

but I love wonky workarounds it's from a pre player devices era

pattern based note triggered chord chopping:
...
and before the poly-cables era too, some devices support workarounds a very fun way

That´s a different story

[mouse clicker]

You should at least try and give a little respect to "one of America's original art forms".

Please link me to a jazz tune that doesn't have any repetitions. I'll wait.

"Improvisation is the activity of making or doing something not planned beforehand, using whatever can be found.[1] Improvisation in the performing arts is a very spontaneous performance without specific or scripted preparation. The skills of improvisation can apply to many different faculties, across all artistic, scientific, physical, cognitive, academic, and non-academic disciplines."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvisation

[antic604]

...

Do you understand the difference between "tune" and "single instrument"