Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[rubez]

"power games"

i've had plenty of iLok troubles and authorisation headaches throughout the years to know what a pain it can be. if i'm paying for a product it should just work. when there are less hoops to jump through as a pirate user than a legit customer you know something is wrong.

unless you think everyone who says they stay away from particular software because of known overbearing or notorious DRM systems is lying? that's money lost, it is short sighted and so harms the company.

companies should be aiming to be as inviting and attractive to customers as much as possible..... what i see here, just randomly looking in on the last few pages even, it looks like their actual customers aren't happy. how do they expect to attract new ones? this DRM is not being able to see the forest for the trees i'm afraid. i would be most concerned with losing existing customers than deterring probable-never pirate customers if i was them.

[SLiC]

Irrisepective of the faff of Codemaster and new licnese etc, I think a lot of peole don't like having a service/app running permanently in the background just so you can run one VST.

Codemeter is permanently running 3 background services, taking up 3 chunks of RAM and has a 'medium' impact on system start up times. Some peoople obviously think this is OK to run Avenger, some do not.

[SirkusPi]

Irrisepective of the faff of Codemaster and new licnese etc, I think a lot of peole don't like having a service/app running permanently in the background just so you can run one VST.

Codemeter is permanently running 3 background services, taking up 3 chunks of RAM and has a 'medium' impact on system start up times. Some peoople obviously think this is OK to run Avenger, some do not.

(Emphasis added.) This! This is my concern, and why I refuse to update Avenger from 1.4 (or to ever purchase from VPS again, a company that imposed CodeMeter after taking my money, which I specifically spent in reliance on their express promise of a keyfile copy protection system).

To be frank, I don't really care about re-authorizing every 90 days (although I certainly understand and respect those for whom this is a dealbreaker). But adding a permanent low-level process for one synth strikes me as nuts.

(And I agree that Avenger is a very good synth indeed. But I disagree strongly with those who are saying that it is a singular synth, without peer, and worth jumping through significant hoops for. I'm getting on just fine with my u-he synths, and my kv331 synths, and my NI synths, and my Arturia synths, etc., etc., etc. I don't think any synth is truly indispensable these days, with so many options out there.)

[billcarroll]

no, but thank you for asking

I interpret the above answer as the developer makes less money on Avenger without CodeMeter as copy protection. And this is the real issue. Piraten.

Developers have to have solid copy protection if they expect to stay in business. These software development companies are not charities, working to benefit thieves.

Developers are forced to use some form of copy protection or they will go out of business. I can't imagine how devastating it must have been to put all of the time, effort, and money into developing Avenger, only to have it pirated and see sales crash as a result. I assume this is what happened, or something close to it, that lead to the implementation of CodeMeter.

Ultimately, not every developer has the know how to implement rock-solid copy protection on their own. When faced with a decision to divert development hours and money to a copy protection system, or choose one off the rack so to speak, the smart choice for a small team is to use existing copy protection they know works, and stay focused on developing their core products.

I'm not a big fan of CodeMeter, but I am a fan of this synth and the developers behind it. I'd prefer iLok over CodeMeter since I already have to use iLok. At some point you have to make a decision based on deeper values. I choose to deal with stupid copy protection because ultimately it support the amazing creatives behind the plugins.

[zvenx]

Anecdotal evidence: I recently updated my copy of Avenger. It took about 2 minutes. About the same time it takes to update a login password.

Except you don't (well I don't anyway) have to update my login password every 90 days.

Imagine if every plugin you had required this.

rsp

[MrBauer]

Developers have to have solid copy protection if they expect to stay in business. These software development companies are not charities, working to benefit thieves.

Developers are forced to use some form of copy protection or they will go out of business.

You mean the simple uhe or fabfilter keyfiles? Or even the nexus keyfile/online system? The imageline fl studio reg-key?

[chk071]

U-he is no simple serial. Even though that's all the customers sees. Usually. Somtimes he sees a melting GUI.

[bmanic]

U-he is no simple serial. Even though that's all the customers sees. Usually. Somtimes he sees a melting GUI.

but that is the thing.. it IS a "simple" serial from the users perspective. However, the cleverness of the copy protection system is completely transparent and extremely effective. AFAIK no U-He plugin has been successfully cracked yet. There are timebombs and what not for the wannabe pirate.. some of them extremely long apparently.

This just shows that it IS possible to create a very nice copy protection scheme from the users point of view while still being effective. I wish more companies invested in this kind of system.

[SLiC]

Ultimately the best software protection is very frequent updates, pirates and thieves get tired of constantly cracking and uploading/downloading the 'latest version' and as most are of the warez users are just 'collectors' of free stuff. Ultimately only old versions frequent the internet (or as is often the case, versions with spyware, trojans and even worse embedded in the crack....)

[DJErmac]

Personally, I don't mind the Codemeter protection change. I had no trouble with it, everything worked fine when I switched. And Avenger still is my favourite synth ever, and I own approx. 90% of the expansions. But having to renew your licence every 90 days is more than stupid. And this is something I've never seen anywhere else.

[DJErmac]

U-he is no simple serial. Even though that's all the customers sees. Usually. Somtimes he sees a melting GUI.

AFAIK no U-He plugin has been successfully cracked yet. There are timebombs and what not for the wannabe pirate.. some of them extremely long apparently.

No, no : they've all been cracked successfully ages ago. I know people who use them without any problem. When I bought my first U-He licences, around 2011, some friends were already using cracked U-He plugins.

[JiggSaw]

I apologize if this has already been asked in this massive thread. I've tried searching but didn't find anything. How do the expansions between Avenger and Nexus compare sound wise?

My question kinda got buried with all the copy protection stuff. Does anyone own expansions for both and can provide feedback?

[Kumi_27]

How do the expansions between Avenger and Nexus compare sound wise?

They're both good, but different. Good friend of mine is a musician/composer and he extensively uses both of these plugins with additional sound libraries. And he rather tries not to buy unnecessary plugs, or duplicating ones.

[chk071]

U-he is no simple serial. Even though that's all the customers sees. Usually. Somtimes he sees a melting GUI.

but that is the thing.. it IS a "simple" serial from the users perspective. However, the cleverness of the copy protection system is completely transparent and extremely effective. AFAIK no U-He plugin has been successfully cracked yet. There are timebombs and what not for the wannabe pirate.. some of them extremely long apparently.

Not every coder is as clever, or eager to put in the time and money to develop something like that himself. Actually, I can very well understand why some are not keen on having anything to do with security stuff. It's tedious, it's no DSP (which most developers who develop plugins are rather into), and, it's never safe to say that you protected your plugin well enough from piracy.

Urs is kind of a nerd, and pretty interested in stuff like that, and frequented some warez forums for some time, AFAIK. Really, if I wanted to develop a plugin, security shit would be the last thing I'd want to do myself.

I do understand your point though, at least party. If the copy protection gets in your way, it starts to be annoying. Let's not forget that we all benefit from a healthy business, though, and, I doubt anyone here seriously wants to see any developer out of business.

[mustgroove]

U-he is no simple serial. Even though that's all the customers sees. Usually. Somtimes he sees a melting GUI.

but that is the thing.. it IS a "simple" serial from the users perspective. However, the cleverness of the copy protection system is completely transparent and extremely effective. AFAIK no U-He plugin has been successfully cracked yet. There are timebombs and what not for the wannabe pirate.. some of them extremely long apparently.

This just shows that it IS possible to create a very nice copy protection scheme from the users point of view while still being effective. I wish more companies invested in this kind of system.

+1000000

Or u-he could sell his copy protection as a middleware layer to other devs