Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[rubez]

i opted for Parawave Rapid synth, a simple one-time serial authorise process, done and dusted. so at least one lost sale for Avenger. whether silly or not, this is up there in priority for some users.

[bftucker]

i opted for Parawave Rapid synth, a simple one-time serial authorise process, done and dusted. so at least one lost sale for Avenger. whether silly or not, this is up there in priority for some users.

Good for you
and goodbye.

I wish you well.

[chk071]

U-he is no simple serial. Even though that's all the customers sees. Usually. Somtimes he sees a melting GUI.

but that is the thing.. it IS a "simple" serial from the users perspective. However, the cleverness of the copy protection system is completely transparent and extremely effective. AFAIK no U-He plugin has been successfully cracked yet. There are timebombs and what not for the wannabe pirate.. some of them extremely long apparently.

This just shows that it IS possible to create a very nice copy protection scheme from the users point of view while still being effective. I wish more companies invested in this kind of system.

+1000000

Or u-he could sell his copy protection as a middleware layer to other devs

As far as Urs said here, he would even share his "secrets" with other devs. The thing is, I don't know how easy or hard it is to implement, and, obviously, a lot of devs opt for the "safe" solution to license one of the proven DRM's.

And look how we only talk about copy protections again here. So sad, when we should actually talk about the plugin. Always the same.

Musicians create music with these plugins. I heard.

[mustgroove]

U-he is no simple serial. Even though that's all the customers sees. Usually. Somtimes he sees a melting GUI.

but that is the thing.. it IS a "simple" serial from the users perspective. However, the cleverness of the copy protection system is completely transparent and extremely effective. AFAIK no U-He plugin has been successfully cracked yet. There are timebombs and what not for the wannabe pirate.. some of them extremely long apparently.

This just shows that it IS possible to create a very nice copy protection scheme from the users point of view while still being effective. I wish more companies invested in this kind of system.

+1000000

Or u-he could sell his copy protection as a middleware layer to other devs

As far as Urs said here, he would even share his "secrets" with other devs. The thing is, I don't know how easy or hard it is to implement, and, obviously, a lot of devs opt for the "safe" solution to license one of the proven DRM's.

And look how we only talk about copy protections again here. So sad, when we should actually talk about the plugin. Always the same.

Musicians create music with these plugins. I heard.

Sharing the copy protection method with other devs is nice, but it leaves open the question of whether it's easy or hard for them to implement.

What I'm suggesting is essentially Urs should develop it as its own product with an SDK, documentation, etc., and sell it as a proven, safe, user-friendly commercial copy protection option for plugin devs that competes against ilok / wibu / elicenser etc. on the basis that it's not a dongle, doesn't install any drivers or persistent background services that chew up resources or reduce plugin performance, etc.

Judging from how many people post that they avoid a given product purely on the basis of its copy protection, copy protection alone is a significant way that devs can differentiate their plugins from others in the current market.

[chk071]

Why not? If Urs wants to do that.

What I'd really question though is the part about "Judging from how many people post that they avoid a given product purely on the basis of its copy protection". If you count the people complaining in this thread, I'd be surprised if you'd count over 20. Now, this is a forum. A place where people complain more than they praise. It's also a selection of users. A very small selection. A very special selection. That all makes it very hard to judge how big the part of the user base which really complains about the copy protection really is.

But, again, if Urs wants to do that (we don't know), by all means, he should do that. I'm sure some devs would appreciate a safe, affordable (?) alternative, which doesn't include dongles or additional software on the client computer.

(Would love to take a look through the peephole one day, and see some figures about the sales of dongle, or software protected software, in comparison to key file or serial protected ones. My guess is that there's no difference at all, and it rather depends on the plugin. I mean, if you take a look at Cubase, for example, I really don't see how they miss out on sales.)

Anyway, TBH, my manners forbid me to go on hijacking this thread for these general discussions about copy protections, so, I will bail out now.

[Sam-U]

What I'm suggesting is essentially Urs should develop it as its own product with an SDK, documentation, etc., and sell it as a proven, safe, user-friendly commercial copy protection option for plugin devs that competes against ilok / wibu / elicenser etc. on the basis that it's not a dongle, doesn't install any drivers or persistent background services that chew up resources or reduce plugin performance, etc.

Given that he hates making money from copy protection and on the other hand the amount of work, abstraction and maintenance as well as some sort of legal bindings (just my guess) that comes with it, I don't see this happening.

[mustgroove]

What I'm suggesting is essentially Urs should develop it as its own product with an SDK, documentation, etc., and sell it as a proven, safe, user-friendly commercial copy protection option for plugin devs that competes against ilok / wibu / elicenser etc. on the basis that it's not a dongle, doesn't install any drivers or persistent background services that chew up resources or reduce plugin performance, etc.

Given that he hates making money from copy protection and on the other hand the amount of work, abstraction and maintenance as well as some sort of legal bindings (just my guess) that comes with it, I don't see this happening.

I agree, I don't see it actually happening, but it's nice to daydream about how good it would be if he did

[jeffb01]

Why not? If Urs wants to do that.

What I'd really question though is the part about "Judging from how many people post that they avoid a given product purely on the basis of its copy protection". If you count the people complaining in this thread, I'd be surprised if you'd count over 20. Now, this is a forum. A place where people complain more than they praise. It's also a selection of users. A very small selection. A very special selection. That all makes it very hard to judge how big the part of the user base which really complains about the copy protection really is.

But, again, if Urs wants to do that (we don't know), by all means, he should do that. I'm sure some devs would appreciate a safe, affordable (?) alternative, which doesn't include dongles or additional software on the client computer.

(Would love to take a look through the peephole one day, and see some figures about the sales of dongle, or software protected software, in comparison to key file or serial protected ones. My guess is that there's no difference at all, and it rather depends on the plugin. I mean, if you take a look at Cubase, for example, I really don't see how they miss out on sales.)

Anyway, TBH, my manners forbid me to go on hijacking this thread for these general discussions about copy protections, so, I will bail out now.

I'll just say this. I haven't had any real problems with the upgrade, though it was annoying having to spend a whole day re-downloading everything. But some people have had real issues with this DRM (not working on their set-up, ). I am in an Avenger Facebook group, and people have to jump thru hoops to get it to work (first download the DRM, then the software, then go to an earlier version of the DRM, then download V-manager. etc). I really feel for these people. I do love Avenger and I have spent a LOT of money on the synth and it's expansions, I hope it always works. but I would be hesitant to recommend it to someone asking advice on the next synth to buy. And comparing to U-he, I'll just say this. If all of U-He gets wiped out by the corona, those synths will work for as long as you have your computer. But if it happens to VPS, well, good luck.

ps: Again, I love the synth itself. It's probably my favorite synth and I own all the big ones (omni, falcon, etc)

[DJErmac]

But... is it some kind of joke or ?... U-He plugins are (I believe, don't care, some friends use Diva, Zebra2 and Hive at least for sure) ALL CRACKED !!! I don't know where this rumor that U-He copy protection is perfect is coming from, but it's simply untrue : there are pirated versions available everywhere since more than ten years.

[mgw38]

i opted for Parawave Rapid synth, a simple one-time serial authorise process, done and dusted. so at least one lost sale for Avenger. whether silly or not, this is up there in priority for some users.

I have a weird problem, primarily with Nexus but also with Rapid. I run my system with an eGPU and whenever I connect/disconnect the eGPU Rapid thinks it is on a new system and asks for reauthorisation. Had to uninstall it eventually.

[Sam-U]

But... is it some kind of joke or ?... U-He plugins are (I believe, don't care, some friends use Diva, Zebra2 and Hive at least for sure) ALL CRACKED !!! I don't know where this rumor that U-He copy protection is perfect is coming from, but it's simply untrue : there are pirated versions available everywhere since more than ten years.

"Cracked" versions only work for short time. Urs explained this too often. The timebombs kick in, especially in situations where you rely on the plugin functioning. And the plugins seem to be working but change settings without noticing the user and so on. But if we're at it: I don't know where the rumor comes from that codemeter on the other hand is save, given that e.g. reason and sequoia are available pirated as well as some plugins...

[DJErmac]

Yes, if Urs says so... Check yourself : you'll see the people who use it do NOT complain about timebombs or anything. It's very easy to find.

Ever seen a developper saying "yeah, the cracked versions work perfectly, no need to purchase the full version, that's for sure" ?...

Did anyone ever wonder where the famous Tone 2 rumour saying that using cracked version could harm your computer could be coming from ? Could be anyone, uh ?

[chk071]

Unfortunately, it's a common misconception that copy protections are built in so that the software will never be cracked. Are there cars which can't be stolen? No. Manufacturers just make it damn hard to steal them. It's no fool proof feature so that they can't be stolen, ever.

[DJErmac]

True. When plugins are uncracked, it's a matter of LUCK. It's because crackers decide to keep it private or don't care about the product.

[Sam-U]

Yes, if Urs says so... Check yourself : you'll see the people who use it do NOT complain about timebombs or anything. It's very easy to find.

Ever seen a developper saying "yeah, the cracked versions work perfectly, no need to purchase the full version, that's for sure" ?...

Did anyone ever wonder where the famous Tone 2 rumour saying that using cracked version could harm your computer could be coming from ? Could be anyone, uh ?

Urs has been around in warez forums for long time and took many looks what has been cracked how. So I think what you're saying could be true in general, devs say lots of things (like we've seen in here that the new cp didn't do any harm to the sales). But regarding cp and uhe you've picked the wrong combo I think Anyways. Doesn't matter to this thread. If you're right and they're totally cracked then uhe is the best example that piracy doesn't nessecarily means hurting business unless people see big reasons to rather use a cracked plugin that an up to date version supporting the dev