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You are just posting fake news and false facts, by leaving out quotes and related info. Stop brainwashing Manuels brain by echo chamber him.

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DJErmac wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:25 pm Then you just don't think about what Vengeance did and are trying to re-write the story, I'm sorry : they were trying to find a BETTER (well, for them) copy protection, not a worse, and they're also not in need to know what they could have done better imho. Sorry but this is a complete waste of time. If you're validating that nobody ever said that U-He has a better copy protection, suggesting they could use this is a waste of time.

 
Sadly, they found one that was worse for all their paying customers. There plainly are people here and elsewhere who are willing to tolerate CodeMeter, but I don’t think I’ve seen any end users who actually think it’s a good system. I like to imagine that someday more people will stop tolerating developers who install root-level, inconvenient crap on users’ systems, but I understand today is not yet that day.

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Hanz Meyzer wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:34 pm You are just posting fake news and false facts, by leaving out quotes and related info. Stop brainwashing Manuels brain by echo chamber him.
Losing control uh ? I'm not going to post links to cracked U-He software just to prove you wrong, sorry. And instead of dreaming on what could have been, Im trying to focus on what could be, for real, that's why I'm saying the 90 days reactivation sucks.
SirkusPi wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:35 pm Sadly, they found one that was worse for all their paying customers. There plainly are people here and elsewhere who are willing to tolerate CodeMeter, but I don’t think I’ve seen any end users who actually think it’s a good system. I like to imagine that someday more people will stop tolerating developers who install root-level, inconvenient crap on users’ systems, but I understand today is not yet that day.
Yes, I tolerate the Codemeter protection as I had no problem with it so far, but I hate this 90 days reactivation process.
Last edited by DJErmac on Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please don’t read the above post. It’s a stupid one. Simply pass.

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SirkusPi wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:35 pm
DJErmac wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:25 pm Then you just don't think about what Vengeance did and are trying to re-write the story, I'm sorry : they were trying to find a BETTER (well, for them) copy protection, not a worse, and they're also not in need to know what they could have done better imho. Sorry but this is a complete waste of time. If you're validating that nobody ever said that U-He has a better copy protection, suggesting they could use this is a waste of time.

 
Sadly, they found one that was worse for all their paying customers. There plainly are people here and elsewhere who are willing to tolerate CodeMeter, but I don’t think I’ve seen any end users who actually think it’s a good system. I like to imagine that someday more people will stop tolerating developers who install root-level, inconvenient crap on users’ systems, but I understand today is not yet that day.
Seems sale numbers are still good otherwise they wouldnt continue their cp moves
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

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Would prefer iLok :-?
Just upgraded, everything works fine (CM version 7) but not super happy wasting resources on it...
Would be nice if you asked us what we prefer...

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Selfik wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:40 pm Would prefer iLok :-?
Just upgraded, everything works fine (CM version 7) but not super happy wasting resources on it...
Why didn't you ask us what we prefer?
Yeah, it's terrible that CodeMeter seems to take 11.5Mbyte of memory, 0% (0,6% during loading of Avenger) CPU and a whopping 60Mbyte of disk space. Just terrible :)

I prefer CodeMeter before iLok. Have hade more problems with iLok, but I do have around 85 licenses running through iLok though, and only 2 running CodeMeter. But even though I went for the iLok Key and moved all licenses there, I now, suddenly, have a "ghost machine" that is using up around 20 of my licenses even though I never registered them on my computer.

So why do you assume that the answer would be iLok if VPS would ask? Also, Manuel has already mentioned that they thought it was too expensive.
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

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yeah...50 iloked plugs here...and now only one CM :shrug:
there are smaller companies running ilok...how they manage to pay?

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I have no idea what the problem really is. I was able to update Avenger in three minutes. I've been using Codemeter for years because of Reason and since last year Antares plug-ins (e.g. the gold old Auto-Tune series) are CM protected as well. Not a single problem under macOS regarding activation. Are these PC specific problems or what?

Anyway, someone who can handle such a complex synthesizer monster like Avenger, can't get it to spend three minutes of its time for activation or is totally overwhelmed or even frightened by it? Highly illogical behavior. Maybe someone can enlighten me on what I'm missing.

However, I personally would prefer iLok as well.

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DJErmac wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:44 pm
Hanz Meyzer wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:34 pm You are just posting fake news and false facts, by leaving out quotes and related info. Stop brainwashing Manuels brain by echo chamber him.
Losing control uh ? I'm not going to post links to cracked U-He software just to prove you wrong, sorry. And instead of dreaming on what could have been, Im trying to focus on what could be, for real, that's why I'm saying the 90 days reactivation sucks.
No, not at all, but it starts to look to me that logic is not your friend. I wasn't even complaining about codemeter, but instead the (coding) quality of the plugin, and also stated valid points about the U-He cp concept.

Let me try to reformulate: U-He is using a positive system of confirmation, psychologically seen, while Vengeance is using a negative circle of system, a control freak's system. This is a psychological discussion in the end.

Benefits of u-he approach:
- Easy to adapt copy protection once it was cracked (was it, really?), since lightweight
- Honest, paying customers won't be punished for crackers'/other people's actions
- Due open-minded, you can influence the direction of the development
- Very solidly programmed, since they don't waste too much time programming fort knox, the quality / stability of their plugins is far more superior over VPS Avenger.
- It performs much, much better while also providing a mathematically higher quality of sound (not that those differences count here at all, just saying), since more development time
- Customers feel respected and fairly treated
- More small updates regularly
- Even users of a crack feel motivated to buy it sooner or later, because high reputation and more value for them.

Disadvantages:
- Might be more easily cracked (was it, really?)
Anything else?

Benefits of vengeance approach:
- Might be harder to be cracked (actually it was cracked before , and we now will see in future)
- It might be more attractive for expansion creators on first sight, since the presets can be protected. On the end it also creates a lot of dependency.
Anything else?

Disadvantages:
- Programming quality lacks, because maybe 50%++ of development time go into the copy protection, webpages for handling cp etc.
- Lot of time loss
- Customers feel punished for actions they did not do
- Promises, which were given at the time of buying are broken. Customers feel scammed.
- Quite a lot of effort just to use it
- Instabilities
- Friendly but poor customer service, due lack of time and heavy cp complexity
- Crack users will hate Vengeance (see them as potential future customers). Once it is cracked, the cracked version will run better than the original.
Last edited by Hanz Meyzer on Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Selfik wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:11 pm yeah...50 iloked plugs here...and now only one CM :shrug:
there are smaller companies running ilok...how they manage to pay?
Possibly there is a different license model that depends on how much you sell, how much your revenue is. I don't know though. Don't forget they need to pay license money for every expansion as well, and how many smaller companies have their expansions protected by iLok?

Well, anyway, so far, no problems with CM (have been running Reason since v9). Every other Windows update (the larger ones) have given me problems with iLok though, which was the reason I purchase an iLok Key. But somehow a glitch made around 20 plugins register to my computer, but since it was grayed out, I couldn't deactivate. For the fourth time I had to email every single developer and ask them to reset my licenses.
i9-10900K | 128GB DDR4 | RTX 3090 | Arturia AudioFuse/KeyLab mkII/SparkLE | PreSonus ATOM/ATOM SQ | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Reaper | Renoise | FL Studio | ~900 VSTs | 300+ REs

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chk071 wrote:Some iLok plugins in a specific version were cracked. Anything iLok protected coming after that wasn't.
Not true

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Hanz Meyzer wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:16 pm
DJErmac wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:44 pm
Hanz Meyzer wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:34 pm You are just posting fake news and false facts, by leaving out quotes and related info. Stop brainwashing Manuels brain by echo chamber him.
Losing control uh ? I'm not going to post links to cracked U-He software just to prove you wrong, sorry. And instead of dreaming on what could have been, Im trying to focus on what could be, for real, that's why I'm saying the 90 days reactivation sucks.
No, not at all, but it starts to look to me that logic is not your friend. I wasn't even complaining about codemeter, but instead the (coding) quality of the plugin, and also stated valid points about the U-He cp concept.

Let me try to reformulate: U-He is using a positive system of confirmation, psychologically seen, while Vengeance is using a negative circle of system, a control freak's system. This is a psychological discussion in the end.
...which is completely pointless !!!!! This is where we agree that we don't agree. You're talking in the middle of the desert, nobody's listening here. Why do you want anybody to validate that U-He's global way of thinking is better (obviously Vengeance don't think the same), and what will it change to Vengeance Avenger ?? This is some kind of mild trolling to me... Open your eyes : Vengeance chose Codemeter.
Please don’t read the above post. It’s a stupid one. Simply pass.

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I don't expect Vengeance to listen to me, since they didn't before. But you brought up the topic of u-he's cp in a untrue way.

Maybe you simply deserve this kind of attitude of Vengeance, like I deserve a developer like U-He :lol:

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Hanz Meyzer
I don't expect Vengeance to listen to me, since they didn't before
I'm sure Manuel did hear you.

But he's obviously not going to change his mind, and doesn't want to argue any more

The Avenger FB forum is quite good.

Try there and see what sort of support you get for your ideas
Member 12, Studio One v6.5, VPS Avenger, Kontakt 7, Spitfire, Dune, Arturia, Sonible, Baby Audio, CableGuys, Nektar Panorama P1, Vaporizer 2 to test out

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Ah, thanks for the hint. FB now has forums? Hm, I will have a look.

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