VPS Avenger new license system is a complete mystery

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Cataclysm - Avenger Expansion VPS Avenger

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overhishead wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:49 am presumably, anyone who can buy this and all the expansions can afford to hire a studio technician who can do the updates for them, so just let them figure it out. Just to put it in perspective, a Steely Dan album took a hundred people to make, and a million dollars in 1980 money. Avenger plus all the expansions plus a studio assistant is nowhere near as costly.
Trippy.
I lost my heart in Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu

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Maybe change 'mystery' to 'misery' in the thread title, that will make it more accurate.

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a great plugin and userbase harmed by unprofessional marketing and communication and steps.
DAW FL Studio Audio Interface Focusrite Scarlett 1st Gen 2i2 CPU Intel i7-7700K 4.20 GHz, RAM 32 GB Dual-Channel DDR4 @2400MHz Corsair Vengeance. MB Asus Prime Z270-K, GPU Gainward 1070 GTX GS 8GB NT Be Quiet DP 550W OS Win10 64Bit

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well seems the developers are a bunch of pricks that wallow in the mire of their fanboy stardom which basically came from the original nexus and nexus 2. they are too greedy to care about their customers and this implementation of the new protection was contrary to what was initially advertised and was implemented on a perceived loss due to piracy and not to actual loss. even breaking their own standard they refused to refund money to unhappy customers that bought the product before this fiasco. yes i hear it was cracked on the old protection but how much do they REALLY lose? personally i see them as just plain greedy and they could care less how much they burden their actual paying customers.

there are tons of REAL developers that use ilok and write off or see the few pirates as actual publicity of the product and popularity of their product. but then again REAL developers care about their customers happiness and well being with their product. not so with these twats. there is plenty of evidence that many are unhappy with the protection scheme and are having REAL problems with it only to be attacked by the fanboys and the developers alike. so not good. if you notice there is a lot of people selling off their product including nexus 3 which i hear is worse having to renew more often than avenger :( they too are being ridiculed for NOT blowing air up the developer's arses like the fanboys.

i was actually surprised how unprofessional and openly hateful the developers are to their paying customers on this forum alone... so much that one of the developers actual refused to even respond any more except to promote a new expansion every two weeks or so. and if you look they probably make more money on expansion sells than they do on the actual product itself given the price of the expansions... buy four expansions and you have exceeded the cost of the synth itself.

i certainly would not promote this synth to anyone knowing what i know now. they must be having hardships from all this because the synth has been on sale more often than not since they implemented the CM protection and all their unhappy customers which in turn makes it hard for many to sell off the synth second hand for what they have in it. if they DO sell it they are taking a major loss doing so.

sorry for you having such problems and headaches and thankfully i refused to upgrade to the 1.5 version with the implementation of the new ridiculous protection scheme. but i will also say i can't bring myself to even use the bloody thing because looking at it alone makes me irritated at all this grief imposed on decent folk that took the company at their word of only using a simple file protection scheme as advertised at the time of purchase. i know many dislike ilok but it rarely has the horror stories it once had and it is sufficient for practically 90% of REAL developer's protection against piracy. it would seem these gits would have KNOWN a simple file protection would get hacked in the first place lol but then again... these blokes ain't the brightest bulbs in the box.

i will never buy anything from this company ever again and am sadly writing this off to a very expensive lesson learned. good luck and cheers all
"There is no strength in numbers... have no such misconception... but when you need me be assured I won't be far away."

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MadDogE134 wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:48 pm ... they are too greedy to care about their customers and this implementation of the new protection was contrary to what was initially advertised ...
Yup.
MadDogE134 wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:48 pm ... and was implemented on a perceived loss due to piracy and not to actual loss.
I don't know if this is true or not. I don't know -- and suspect no one outside VPS knows -- the effect piracy was having on Avenger sales, and the impact switching to CodeMeter has had.

But to me, it's irrelevant, for the reason you say above (re: contrary to what was advertised). VPS chose to gamble by moving from eLicenser to a simple keyfile system, wagering that the increase in sales that would generate would make up for any losses from cracking and piracy. Even assuming they lost that bet (that is, even assuming that the cracking of the keyfile system did have a significantly adverse effect on sales), it should be their burden to bear, not the consumers'.

They gambled. They lost. I and other consumes who purchased based on the "simple keyfile" advertising should not get stuck with CodeMeter after-the-fact because the people behind VPS aren't grown-up enough to only gamble what they can afford to lose, but rather try to recapture their losses on the back of consumers who trusted them.

So for this reason, I agree with you: I will never purchase from VPS again.

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well fact is that no one... not even vps has any idea on how much is actually lost due to piracy... hence why i say 'perceived'. i suspect they prefer to calculate that every one of the pirate copies is a loss but that is not true in fact because who is to say the pirate would have bought the thing in the first place if it weren't available as pirated? common sense would dictate that they wouldn't buy it. why else would they seek it out for free?

now if they only sold but a handful of legit copies and it was all over the warez sites then maybe they would have a case for stating a loss. pirates 'pirate'... that is what they do... they certainly don't pay for product except maybe buying one copy to crack it and pass it around but even THAT is questionable. cheers
Last edited by MadDogE134 on Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There is no strength in numbers... have no such misconception... but when you need me be assured I won't be far away."

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SirkusPi wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:39 pm So for this reason, I agree with you: I will never purchase from VPS again.
Nor will I. :?

So now for every lost customer Vengeance has to make that up with a sale from someone who has to buy Avenger because they can't find a crack.....(yet?)

I'm all for developer's protecting their intellectual property but no one has ever pointed me to a legitimate study that shows every cracked plugin is a lost sale.

ReFx, Tone 2, and now Vengeance have all made it on to the list of developers I will no longer support because of their rude and unprofessional behavior towards paying customers. I'm sure everyone sees the connection between the three.

I prefer to support developers who have more love for their paying customers than they do hatred for pirates and know how to treat customers with respect. :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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amen Tek... i too have a list of who i will buy from and recommend and i also have a small list of those that can go hump someone else's leg lol but sadly that short list is getting longer by the day it seems :( cheers
"There is no strength in numbers... have no such misconception... but when you need me be assured I won't be far away."

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Yous say: "VPS Avenger new license system is a complete mystery"
I say: "then that's why pirates can't crack it"
:)
+Let me say there's no mystery: if something is not documented in the manual, email the developer. When I was questioning something, they answered in time.

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Reefius wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:43 pm Maybe change 'mystery' to 'misery' in the thread title, that will make it more accurate.
Agreed.

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A system that forces you to refresh your license periodically is immoral, irrational and illogical, and does not fit the definition of a perpetual license, so may even be illegal.
For all ilok's faults, it seems to be a stroll in the park compared to Codemeter.

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Teksonik wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:30 pm .....
ReFx, Tone 2, and now Vengeance have all made it on to the list of developers I will no longer support because of their rude and unprofessional behavior towards paying customers. I'm sure everyone sees the connection between the three.
.....
I was making this same point elsewhere recently.
In fairness though, at least to me, Markus has mellowed a lot and if you email him he will take criticism a lot more balanced in my experience.
rsp
sound sculptist

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dune_rave wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:05 pm Yous say: "VPS Avenger new license system is a complete mystery"
I say: "then that's why pirates can't crack it"
:)
Of course, you can develop a car without doors, then nobody can crack it or you can exclude the wheel or better the brakes ...

And that's a typic german atitude since years. Every sounddesigner or developer is thinking, he's the best and the whole world will praise him and so, they can do what they want with their customers, but the reality is, that there are many alternatives and thanks to the globalization and credit cards or PayPal you can buy worldwide and you can create good productions in every genre without Vengeance easily! I bought a sample pack today and it costs 8 Euro and it includes some great Sylenth presets and they're playing in the same league like the "Trance Two" expansion! :wink:
Last edited by clipnotic on Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Just to be padantic, the word is "customer" not "costumer". :) eg, I am often a customer, but I'll never be a costumer.

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okay. like written in my signature, my english is not the best, but I don't take money for that! :D

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