So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

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Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
7141 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:29 am

Just wanted to share my experiences so far. Got a new AMD/Ryzen build from AVA Direct. Spent more money on this computer than any ever before, and ordered before the coronavirus hit (wouldn't have spent the money with so much uncertainty), but didn't get the PC until well after we were already on lockdown.

Basic PC Specs:
AMD 3950x
ASRock Creator mobo
32GB 3600mhz HyperX Predator RAM
Noctua NH-D15 cooler
Radeon RX 5500 XT Graphics Card
Define R6 Case
Windows 10 Pro

My experience so Far:

Issue 1: My Fireface 800 would freeze Windows 10 as soon as something tried using the driver.
Solution: I had another firewire card lying around, tried that and the freezing stopped. Asked RME support if they anticipated any problems if I were to upgrade to a different RME card. They said ASMedia USB3 ports don't work well with their USB3 interfaces, but Thunderbolt and USB2 interfaces should work fine. Ok, so more potential incompatibilities to worry about...

Issue 2: UAD-2 Duo PCIe card didn't work. Turns out this is a known issue with many, many Ryzen boards and UAD-2 cards. Sounds like it's UA's fault, some kind of design flaw int he Duo's and Quads that only manifests itself with Ryzen for some reason.
Solution: Contacted ASRock support, and to their credit, they provided a firmware update to the motherboard that fixed the issue. Note: the firmware they sent me isn't on their site yet.

Issue 3:My Behringer X-Touch One just refused to work.
Solution: None yet. Apparently, this is an issue with multiple AMD X570 boards where the onboard USB doesn't like the X-Touch. Saw some posts suggesting buying a USB3 PCIe card would do the trick. Seriously? I gotta buy another card just to make USB work?

Issue 4: Maybe it's the fan (have it set to silent in BIOS), maybe it's the processor, maybe it's the case itself, but the PC is a little louder than my last one (also had a Noctua fan). I was hoping for quieter. And not I'm not going to try transferring things to my old case, which I think would help due to it's more extensive sound proofing. I was told the R6 was a really quiet case, but not as good as my old Antec honestly.

I know this is just my experience, and other people may not have issues, but my first foray into AMD has not been an enjoyable experience due to all these incompatibility issues. This is all stuff I'm finding out about after the fact. I guess I just expect PCI and USB to just work on Windows, and that's asking too much when an AMD chipset/Mobo is involved?
Last edited by Funkybot's Evil Twin on Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
7141 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:49 am

Oh...it just gets worse...

Issue 5: So I ran DriverBooster to update the drivers on the PC (thinking maybe this will help with the X-Touch One not getting picked up). Rebooted after the driver update. Now I can't boot back into Windows. F*ck me. Resetting Windows back to scatch now. Are you f*cking kidding me?

User avatar
Vee Nee
KVRist
43 posts since 18 Jul, 2016

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am

ASRock, DriverBooster... lol :) I would not even touch both of it. That is a first lesson i got since my first days in IT. I don't get about RME Fireface 800 and USB described in issue 1. Fireface is a 1394 interface. It is known that firewire interfaces are very picky about the firewire chip installed. In my expirience TI chip is the only one that worked well wherever i put it. But i don't understand what about USB, what did you connected to a USB port at issue 1?
Issue 4 - you have to configure fan profile. It is better to do it manually than to select a preset.

Septimon
KVRist
375 posts since 8 Mar, 2008 from Berlin

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:55 am

Vee Nee wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am
But i don't understand what about USB, what did you connected to a USB port at issue 1?
he was referring to a potential future upgrade to an USB 3 Interface. He contacted RME to ask about potential problems.
my music:
soundcloud.com/septimon-band
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User avatar
Unaspected
KVRian
1338 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:04 pm

Yeah. I moved from Firewire to USB 3 for my audio interface when I built my Ryzen rig the other year. Very happy with it - though I built it for much less than my previous build. Of course, pre-builds will always be expensive and they always seem to overcharge on RAM - which is crazy because it must be the easiest thing to upgrade.

For silence, I always choose passive components wherever possible and a good quality case.

chk071
KVRAF
24078 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:07 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:29 am
I know this is just my experience, and other people may not have issues, but my first foray into AMD has not been an enjoyable experience due to all these incompatibility issues.
TBH, I'm not surprised at all. Wouldn't touch anything AMD with a barge pole.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

Scotty
KVRAF
2061 posts since 23 Dec, 2002

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:32 pm

Delete.
Last edited by Scotty on Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
7141 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:09 pm

Vee Nee wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am
ASRock, DriverBooster... lol :) I would not even touch both of it.
ASRock Creator X570 came with a good reputation and supports thunderbolt right on the board. Only AMD board I know of that does it. People think highly of their Taichi boards. I've never used them before either (Gigabyte or ASUS boards in the past here - Intel chips exclusively in the last decade or more).

DriverBooster only got used because of the issues with the Behringer X-Touch One not being recognized via USB. Was hoping maybe a set of driver updates would solve it. Obviously I regret that now. Never had issues with DriverBooster in the past, but it completely f*cked me today.
Vee Nee wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am
I don't get about RME Fireface 800 and USB described in issue 1. Fireface is a 1394 interface. It is known that firewire interfaces are very picky about the firewire chip installed. In my expirience TI chip is the only one that worked well wherever i put it.
Both PCI cards use the TI chipset. I had issues with the SIIG card in my old system, tried a StarTech card (both with TI chipset), and it was better. In this system, the StarTech card was crashing immediately with the Fireface. The SIIG card I still had lying around worked.
Vee Nee wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am
But i don't understand what about USB, what did you connected to a USB port at issue 1?
The USB thing described in Issue #1 was just information I'm relaying from RME. I asked RME Tech Support via email 'If I want to upgrade my Fireface 800 to the UFX+ or UFX2, do you recommend one for AMD+ASRock boards?' Their basic response was 'no issues with Thunderbolt. There are problems with our USB3 interfaces and ASMedia USB3 chipsets.' I'm summarizing and adding my own understanding to it, but I read that response as "the UFX+ will work in Thunderbolt mode, and the UFX2 will work in USB2, but don't expect the UFX+ to work in USB3."
Vee Nee wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:22 am
Issue 4 - you have to configure fan profile. It is better to do it manually than to select a preset.
That's on my to-do list. For now, the fan noise really isn't that bad, I just want to get other stuff working.
Last edited by Funkybot's Evil Twin on Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
7141 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:15 pm

chk071 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:07 pm
TBH, I'm not surprised at all. Wouldn't touch anything AMD with a barge pole.
This is my first AMD system if not in a decade+, than maybe ever. Might've had one AMD system many, many years ago. Was excited about the multi-core performance, but holy crap am I not happy about the compatibility issues I ran into. Not sure if it's an AMD thing, an X570 thing, or an ASRock thing, but when have you ever heard of PCI cards not working (2 of them!) or USB devices not working (X-Touch One)? There's probably a good deal of BAD LUCK involved. I called AVA for tech support today and they were surprised to hear about the issues with the PCI cards (basic response 'probably because they're legacy devices') and had no response on why the X-Touch One wasn't working with USB ('haven't heard of any USB problems with these Ryzen or ASRock systems - really surprised to hear that').

Performance-wise, the chip is great, it's fast as shit. But I wasn't expecting to have issues with PCI and USB devices. Maybe a bit naive in my part, probably a LOT of bad luck, but it definitely caught me off guard.

Does anyone with an AMD Ryzen system have the X-Touch One working? If so, what mobo?
Last edited by Funkybot's Evil Twin on Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
7141 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:21 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:49 am
Oh...it just gets worse...

Issue 5: So I ran DriverBooster to update the drivers on the PC (thinking maybe this will help with the X-Touch One not getting picked up). Rebooted after the driver update. Now I can't boot back into Windows. F*ck me. Resetting Windows back to scatch now. Are you f*cking kidding me?
So just to update on this...DriverBooster completely sh*t the bed. Put me in a boot loop. Had to reinstall Windows 10. Went to reinstall Windows 10, and get a message about a GTP partition preventing install. Had to do a "disk clean" (formatting didn't do it). Once I got Windows 10 installed, a damn Windows Update+Flash Security KB didn't want to install and put me into a series of crashes. Had to restore, which worked (!) then manually wiped the update.

Right now, I'm back to: everything seems to be working except the X-Touch One.

chk071
KVRAF
24078 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:23 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:15 pm
chk071 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:07 pm
TBH, I'm not surprised at all. Wouldn't touch anything AMD with a barge pole.
This is my first AMD system if not in a decade+, than maybe ever. Might've had one AMD system many, many years ago. Was excited about the multi-core performance, but holy crap am I not happy about the compatibility issues I ran into.
To be fair, it's been a while since my last AMD computer... and, the issues I had were mostly with drivers for their graphics cards. The CPU's were fine. Still... I hate trouble some hardware, and try to avoid it if possible.

Maybe your troubles rather have to do with the mainboard.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
7141 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:38 pm

chk071 wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:23 pm
Maybe your troubles rather have to do with the mainboard.
Here's my take:

1. A few AMD motherboards didn't like the UAD-2 Duos and Quads. Totally UA's fault. Something about memory addressing, but something that didn't come up until the Ryzen's hit the streets. ASRock though released a fix in that v2.3 firmware. Don't blame them.

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articl ... patibility

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... hread.html

The issue came up in 2017 as evidenced by that Gearslutz thread and didn't start getting fixed by motherboard manufacturer's until just recently. But again, it looks like this was actually the result of an issue with the UAD cards themselves.

2. Firewire card: just sh*t luck one didn't work. But I had another that did. My Fireface 800 has always been a bit tempermental regardless of FW chipset across many systems. Wasn't a big deal.

3. Berhringer X-Touch One. This might even be a Behringer issue. Might be an AMD thing. Might be a combo of both. F*cking annoying as sh*t though because this probably the newest piece of gear in my rig, but too old to return. Infuriating that this isn't working. If Coronavirus wasn't happening, it'd be on Reverb right now. Happens on more than just ASRock boards. Seems like the X-Touch and AMD does not play nicely...

https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Rec ... d-p/272337

4. The Windows issues? Might be dodgy Windows updates, might be AMD things, might've been a dodgy installation before it ever got to me. DriverBooster definitely f*cked me. My guess is they're at fault for the boot-loop and reinstall by installing non-compatible drivers on my system.

Conclusion
So who is to blame this on? Just seems like I managed to already own a few pieces of gear that really don't play nicely at all with the particular system I bought. But...I probably wouldn't have these issues if I stuck with Intel in the first place.

I'm not sure who to be annoyed with. So if you're contemplating AMD, you know...just think twice. You may not run into these troubles, particularly if you're using different third-party hardware. But I never read about experiences like my own until it happened to me.

resynthesis
KVRist
461 posts since 17 Sep, 2007 from Planet Thanet

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:54 pm

I have some bad memories of AMD problems from yonks ago but over the last year or so I've built a few systems using them. I've stuck with MSI boards and have had no problems. I've only used them with USB interfaces but they've been fine with Behringer, Focusrite and (as I remember) Audient interfaces.

Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
7141 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:12 pm

Question for the group: Buy a PCIe USB card for my X-Touch One or replace the X-Touch One with something else (Presonus, Icon)? If buy a card, which one?

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Unaspected
KVRian
1338 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: So This Whole AMD/Ryzen Thing Really Kind Of Sucks So Far...

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:56 pm

Might be a good excuse to get a Platform M+. I was contemplating one of those for myself. Sold my Behringer BCF 2000 a little while ago and am missing the tactile interaction.

Though I'm not shy of USB ports. So no experience with USB expansion cards.

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