SFZ format documentation

[kinwie]

Ah, got ya. Cymbal chokes are a pain, yeah, I haven't figured out a good way to do them yet. Trigger=release won't work for e-kits at all, and is kind of a pain with keyboards, too. Aftertouch might not be a bad way to do it, actually. Practically no keyboard has that anymore, but it's still supported by ARIA/Sforzando, so you can use it.

I just stick chokes on another note which is in a group which mutes the cymbal, but then you have to hit that note with the right velocity to match how far the sound has decayed. Also not a real solution that's easy to use in real life.

Isn't the e-kit send polyphonic aftertouch message when the drummer grab the cymbal pad? I'm not a drummer so I'm not certain about e-kit though but from what i saw on yt videos, it does.

So I think this example below might work :

<group>
loop_mode=one_shot

<region>
key=55
group=1
off_by=2
off_mode=normal
ampeg_release=0.6
sample=OH/crash1_OH_FF_1.wav

<region>
key=55
volume=-17
group=2
locc130=127
hicc130=127
on_locc130=127
on_hicc130=127
trigger=release
rt_decay=12
sample=OH/crash1Choke_OH_F_1.wav

That's example using Salamander samples
*cc130 = polyphonic aft

With using trigger=release, we can have advantage to use the rt_decay
And possiibly, when having different level of choke tail samples we can utilize lotimer maybe...i dunno...

I always programming drum tracks using piano roll, that's why I'm after the keynumber function

[kinwie]

The actual idea come from this :
(similar to what i've posted above, but with cc20)

<group>
loop_mode=one_shot

<region>
key=55
volume=-12
group=1
off_by=2
off_mode=normal
ampeg_release=0.6
sample=OH/crash1_OH_FF_1.wav

<region>
key=55
volume=-29
group=2
locc20=127
hicc20=127
on_locc20=127
on_hicc20=127
trigger=release
rt_decay=12
sample=OH/crash1Choke_OH_F_1.wav

It will successfully play when we hit the note 55 then move the CC 20 in the sforzando Control tab to 100%

[DSmolken]

OK, if that works with CC20 but not CC130, I think we can safely say that on_locc/hicc is one of the things extended CCs in ARIA don't work with.

But you could still try lochanaft/hichanaft or lopolyaft/hipolyaft.

[kinwie]

Then I think, change the cc 20 to cc 133 might work, like this

<group>
loop_mode=one_shot

<region>
key=55
group=1
off_by=2
off_mode=normal
ampeg_release=0.6
sample=OH/crash1_OH_FF_1.wav

<region>
key=55
volume=-17
group=2
locc133=54
hicc133=54
on_locc133=54
on_hicc133=54
trigger=release
rt_decay=12
sample=OH/crash1Choke_OH_F_1.wav

<region>
key=54
sample=*silence

But it won't

[kinwie]

OK, if that works with CC20 but not CC133, I think we can safely say that on_locc/hicc is one of the things extended CCs in ARIA don't work with.

Yeah, I guess so

[DSmolken]

Well, 133 is key number, getting that to work would be way too convoluted. But change that to 130 for aftertouch, and, well, I just edited my post above, while you were replying.

[kinwie]

Ok, so if you set up a region that triggers using whatever mechanism you like, you can use that to trigger muting by having it in a mute group. If you can't set it up as a region, you can't use it. That's the point I was trying to make (very badly ). I'm not clear on what you were trying to do... Or are you saying the on_ccXXX values don't work to distinguish between regions?

Your previous explanation already true to what i tried to achieve as i post some examples here. It just on_ccXXX not working right now for the 133

[kinwie]

But you could still try lochanaft/hichanaft or lopolyaft/hipolyaft.

Yess, this will work

[DSmolken]

If it works, then good! Seemingly antiquated SFZ1 opcodes to the rescue!

Edit: and if there's ever an SFZ v3 spec, or a major extension beyond what ARIA does now, I hope it involves a standard naming convention for extended parameters. CC>127 works OK for a lot of stuff, but there are limitations.

[kinwie]

If it works, then good! Seemingly antiquated SFZ1 opcodes to the rescue!

Edit: and if there's ever an SFZ v3 spec, or a major extension beyond what ARIA does now, I hope it involves a standard naming convention for extended parameters. CC>127 works OK for a lot of stuff, but there are limitations.

Yeah, I can confirm 100% it works with both aftertouch in my host that i just test it and capture the screen (though the cc130 won't show up at sforzando ctrl tab)

[kinwie]

Edit: and if there's ever an SFZ v3 spec, or a major extension beyond what ARIA does now, I hope it involves a standard naming convention for extended parameters. CC>127 works OK for a lot of stuff, but there are limitations.

Agree!

[kinwie]

One inconvenience that I found when using polyaft (cc130) in that sfz programming method for writing drum notes with piano roll is that I have to open Midi Event List everytime I want to do a crash choke and input the polyaft message because the polyaft automation lane not exist in my host. Only mono/chanaft is available. Not sure other host also have such polyaft feature.

But I think we cannot use chanaft for that kind of programming because chanaft not spesific to one target keynumber.

[DSmolken]

Yeah... poly aftertouch never really caught on in MIDI keyboard controllers, so lots of software devs felt free to ignore it too, and here we are. It's still around, but often not-so-fully implemented.

[kinwie]

Yeah... poly aftertouch never really caught on in MIDI keyboard controllers, so lots of software devs felt free to ignore it too, and here we are. It's still around, but often not-so-fully implemented.

At least now we know it has one use for cymbals choke and make a good sense to use with e-kit

But I also think the capability triggering the tail choke samples with keynumber is great idea

[kinwie]

I'm not clear on what you were trying to do... Or are you saying the on_ccXXX values don't work to distinguish between regions?

A simple description is, I try to use a keynumber for triggering cymbal choke tail samples instead of using standard midi cc or aftertouch. In this case, I tried the function of on_lo/hicc133 in sforzando, but no luck at the moment