New: Brainworx bx_console SSL 9000 J

[sqigls]

i like the 4000 E

the original E sounded different, when it became 'SSL certified' i think the EQ top end kinda opened up a bit. Not sure if it's any smoother really, cos i don't use it excessively and don't have the time to AB shennanigans on it but the top end definitely sounds a bit different. The G i thought was a bit more suited to the 'rock' side of things, whereas the E has a more sculpt-able low end. Like the G has a more 'rounded' sound and the E a bit tighter. The N i owned briefly and it's great, but i'm just more into the SSL sound, it just suits my 'electronic' stuff a bit better. I drifted away from the Neve-esq smiley thing cos the low end - while beefier - just doesn't tighten up the bass a lot of the time. SSL just seems more focussed to me, whereas the Neve thing is for old rockers to whom bass is secondary and just meant to be beefy that said i don't use either of these channel strips much any more. I do wonder how the top end in the 4000 E plugin compares to the actual desk. For some reason the top end in the original console_E seemed a bit more focussed. That said AGAIN - if i'm after an EQ for hi-hats i don't generally reach straight for the 4000 E.

After watching the recent FabFilter vid - RE: aliasing and oversampling etc... I do start to get a bigger picture of the aliasing issue. I wish that ALL plugins had storable separate real-time and render oversampling options, but hey. The trade-off is the CPU impact on most PA plugins is quite acceptable. but with the option not being there, it's like - use them or don't.
or a third KVR option - instead of emailing and building a rapport with the developer - beat your fellow producers around the head and STINK UP EVERY THREAD WITH THE SAME OPINION OVER AND OVER. Would be good for the option though. Out of curiosity, how many EQ plugins have oversampling as a default? most don't even have the option. and another question - what about the plugins that claim to oversample yet have no latency, i thought latency and oversampling were inseparable?

[bmanic]

What strips would you recommend using instead of this PA stuff? So far I haven’t found others easier to work with. I’ve always hated the Metric Halo CS that so many people love. UAD new SSL actually sounded smaller and Waves SSL definitely thinner. These are all 88/96 comparisons.

I don't know.. I thought myself that I would really like the channel strip workflow but apparently I don't. I still end up going single task plugins on almost all sources.

I've got the PA SSL E, G and N consoles (picked up at stupid prices like 25$ or so). I also got the Lindell 80 strip but haven't really got anything useful out of it.

I think I'm just going to continue use my single plugins instead and drop the idea of using a channel strip. I'm just so quick with basic mixing using FabFilter Pro-Q + DMG Audio TrackComp + Pro-G if I need a gate. I end up with that plugin combo 80% of the time. If I have delicate tracks that need a lot of shaping then I end up using Acustica Audio plugins for those as I do find the sound quality unparalleled for heavy shaping.

[Ploki]

I don't know.. I thought myself that I would really like the channel strip workflow but apparently I don't. I still end up going single task plugins on almost all sources.

I've got the PA SSL E, G and N consoles (picked up at stupid prices like 25$ or so). I also got the Lindell 80 strip but haven't really got anything useful out of it.

I think I'm just going to continue use my single plugins instead and drop the idea of using a channel strip. I'm just so quick with basic mixing using FabFilter Pro-Q + DMG Audio TrackComp + Pro-G if I need a gate. I end up with that plugin combo 80% of the time. If I have delicate tracks that need a lot of shaping then I end up using Acustica Audio plugins for those as I do find the sound quality unparalleled for heavy shaping.

tbh, a lot of DAWs (Reaper, logic and i think cubase?) allow you to do your own ""channel strips"" from combined single plugins.

[thecontrolcentre]

tbh, a lot of DAWs (Reaper, logic and i think cubase?) allow you to do your own ""channel strips"" from combined single plugins.

Yeah. Live's Racks are great for that. You can do it in Wavelab & Soundforge too.

[Jopmanajop]

I thought myself that I would really like the channel strip workflow but apparently I don't

Yep, that's why i sold Console 1

[HansP]

So after checking the stuff with the same channel on both tracks and channel one used almost exclusively vs the files with analog mode on the stereo tracks and different channel numbers on each track, the former sounds limp and sterile by comparison. Less wide too. Digital mode and using the same channel definitely sounds cleaner though. Maybe there’s a way to use some other plugins to compensate for what’s lost from using it in analog mode.
...

I thought about this, long before TMT came out. Stuff sounded narrow, boring, sterile.
My solution was, to use many different EQ plugins, always think, which variant might be good for the instrument, and don't use more than 3 or 4 instances of the same EQ or otherwise coloring plugin.
tinyQ came out very neutral, this I use more often.
But I may use the Melda, the PSP Overtone graphic EQ, stock EQ, different channel strips, different lopass/hipass exclusive plugins (like the bx one), recently a linear phase hipass to separate bass mults, and importantly, different exciters and saturators.
for harmony vocals, where one person had delivered all voices, there is this "bee-swarm" effect, and for this I use phase shifters, different setting for every track. maybe different EQs with different settings. only then it sums up nicely.

2 cents..

[RafaelMorgan]

About this TMT stuff, I think it's badly implemented. It's just too exaggerated. You can't expect a high end console to behave like this unless it's defective.

Sure, electronic components have tolerances, but premium components have pretty small ones.

In fact, premium audio equipment brands have each component hand tested to make sure they achieve a premium consistency compatible with their pricing policy. That's called quality assurance.

If I had bough a SSL console and it behaved like TMT does, I would immediately call SSL to have it fixed asap or even returned.

Someone said TMT should have a global intensity knob. I couln't agree more. I think something ranging from 10 to 30% of its currently strength would be more realistic.

[Ploki]

About this TMT stuff, I think it's badly implemented. It's just too exaggerated. You can't expect a high end console to behave like this unless it's defective.

Sure, electronic components have tolerances, but premium components have pretty small ones.

In fact, premium audio equipment brands have each component hand tested to make sure they achieve a premium consistency compatible with their pricing policy. That's called quality assurance.

If I had bough a SSL console and it behaved like TMT does, I would immediately call SSL to have it fixed asap or even returned.

Someone said TMT should have a global intensity knob. I couln't agree more. I think something ranging from 10 to 30% of its currently strength would be more realistic.

along with TMT and subtle level boosting on many presets on MANY PA plugins, i think it's just a tactic that makes you go "wow" when you first try it.
Until you start digging and using it.

[Ploki]

After watching the recent FabFilter vid - RE: aliasing and oversampling etc... I do start to get a bigger picture of the aliasing issue. I wish that ALL plugins had storable separate real-time and render oversampling options, but hey. The trade-off is the CPU impact on most PA plugins is quite acceptable. but with the option not being there, it's like - use them or don't.
or a third KVR option - instead of emailing and building a rapport with the developer - beat your fellow producers around the head and STINK UP EVERY THREAD WITH THE SAME OPINION OVER AND OVER. Would be good for the option though. Out of curiosity, how many EQ plugins have oversampling as a default? most don't even have the option. and another question - what about the plugins that claim to oversample yet have no latency, i thought latency and oversampling were inseparable?

No, you can oversample without latency - it just means you will be using filters that cause phase issues. Voxengo plugins have optional up to 8x oversampling, and you can also choose whether to use linear phase or minimum phase filtering. The latter doesn't produce latecy.

EQ's do not need oversampling by design - unless they saturate - because they're linear processors.
Most of aliasing comes from non-linear processing, do distortion, saturation, compression.

So most EQ's do not need oversampling - unless they colour the sound, and the ones they do, generally employ oversampling. the good ones, anyway.

[RafaelMorgan]

along with TMT and subtle level boosting on many presets on MANY PA plugins, i think it's just a tactic that makes you go "wow" when you first try it.

I guess they've found out that people don't really want truly analog sounding plugins. They want to hear what they think an analogue emulation should sound like, with greatly exaggerated distortion, inconsistencies, crosstalk, etc...Basically, the common idea of how an analogue device should sound like is of a defective of or low grade one

There are just a handful of plugin companies out there who aren't treating every analogue emulation as if it was an overdrive guitar pedal.

Harisson, for instance, takes it pretty seriously. They've made a serious bet on Mixbus. It doesn't distort. There's no audible difference between channels. There's no crosstalk. Its tape emu produces one single second order harmonic, when hit very hard and it doesn't have any audio wow/flutter effects.

[Jopmanajop]

So most EQ's do not need oversampling

What if they're cramping at Nyquist? Not sure if i can hear the difference, just curious

[Trancit]

Harisson, for instance, takes it pretty seriously. They've made a serious bet on Mixbus. It doesn't distort. There's no audible difference between channels. There's no crosstalk. Its tape emu produces one single second order harmonic, when hit very hard and it doesn't have any audio wow/flutter effects.

And what doesn´t serve it to you???

If it doesn´t distort (saturate) it doesn´t produce any additionally harmonic content...
If it doesn´t do any audible difference between channels and doesn´t crosstalk it means it does the same like any stock mixer in any DAW...

If it doesn´t change the sound at all where is the sense in having an analog emulation???

[RafaelMorgan]

And what doesn´t serve it to you???

Well, it does something but it's subtle, pretty much like Airwindows' plugins...Not like you've placed a guitar amp on each one of your channels.

[Ploki]

What if they're cramping at Nyquist? Not sure if i can hear the difference, just curious

More of a concern with phase response if I recall correctly.
Pro-Q3s “natural” phase i think was an attempt to alleviate that

[Trancit]

So most EQ's do not need oversampling

What if they're cramping at Nyquist? Not sure if i can hear the difference, just curious

This is a very very subtle effect which perhaps 1% of the world population can here a little bit...(and the others not of course... )
That´s more or less the same marketing nonsense like intersample peaks...
There is a theoretical problem ... only that nobody can hear it... so does it matter??? You decide...
Watch this video from about minute 5...

Can you hear the difference??? I can´t...

At the very end there are about 1 billion other things to consider before caring about something like this