Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

[Vladislav_Gronk]

Perhaps you´ve got the wrong workflow whatever you try to achieve there...
I find for sure many stuff which is hard to do in Reaper too...

Obviously it's an extreme example but how would you add volume variations to audio clips in a faster way in Ableton? I'm all ears.

[Trancit]

Obviously it's an extreme example but how would you add volume variations to audio clips in a faster way in Ableton? I'm all ears.

With pure audio it´s of course only possible like this or with volume automation which is easier to do in Ableton i.e....
But with a bunch of drumhits I throw them into a drum rack and use velocity... everything in one window...

Depends on which task...

It´s the same in Reaper if you try to manipulate samples via different timestretching algos like Slice, Granular etc... How do you do that??
How do you change the loop points of an audio file on the fly in Reaper...
Region editing in Ableton is much easier as well...
Another example would be having to do detailed work with a high zoom level and switching to (a lot of) different items... in Ableton it´s just a mouse click for each as the zoom happens in the editor window...
But in Reaper would be a zoom and scroll nightmare...
That´s the reason why I prefer always in any case having a seperate editor window for audio against just timeline editing... you don´t have to use it always but it´s so handy in many cases...
Big oversight in Reaper imho...

Not that in either wouldn´t be possible what the other does (apart from timestretch algos which are simply lacking in Reaper) ... I just wanted to point out that Reaper is far from perfect too...

Imho Reaper is far ahead when it comes to edit audio... Ableton when it comes to audio mangling...

[pdxindy]

Imho Reaper is far ahead when it comes to edit audio... Ableton when it comes to audio mangling...

That sums it up well for me.

Back when I used to use Live, whenever I had a lot of audio editing to do, I always used something else (usually Reaper)

[Vladislav_Gronk]

But with a bunch of drumhits I throw them into a drum rack and use velocity... everything in one window...

Yes, that's the fastest way to do it in Ableton, although I prefer the visual experience of working with audio.

It´s the same in Reaper if you try to manipulate samples via different timestretching algos like Slice, Granular etc... How do you do that??

You can't, since they don't have the exact same features. How do you do spectral editing natively in Ableton?

Region editing in Ableton is much easier as well...

How so?

How do you change the loop points of an audio file on the fly in Reaper...

You use the new "Adjust loop section start/end" mouse modifier. Drag the edge of a clip and let go and the loop points will continue from there. Super fast.

Another example would be having to do detailed work with a high zoom level and switching to (a lot of) different items... in Ableton it´s just a mouse click for each as the zoom happens in the editor window...
But in Reaper would be a zoom and scroll nightmare...

Yes, in those cases the edit window is great.

Imho Reaper is far ahead when it comes to edit audio... Ableton when it comes to audio mangling...

At the end of the day that's pretty much how I feel as well. I just wanted to point out an area where I thought Ableton was kind of slow compared to the competition.

[Caine123]

hey guys, i didnt download ableton yet but i see in bitwig you have those containers and can add different audio files/clips etc. to it this is great!
can ableton do it too? so i can just add slices, sections etc. to a audiosample and merge it?
and how you guys think are the stretch algos ableton vs bitwig?
does ableton have more audio mangling options/effects than bitwig?

[Trancit]

hey guys, i didnt download ableton yet but i see in bitwig you have those containers and can add different audio files/clips etc. to it this is great!
can ableton do it too? so i can just add slices, sections etc. to a audiosample and merge it?

Not i a kind of container... in Ableton you would place the slices into the arranger and consolidate it to a new file...

and how you guys think are the stretch algos ableton vs bitwig?

Bitwig has a bit more choice on one side but lack of the tone/texture granular modes of Ableton...
I would say Bitwig is a tiny bit ahead as the granular modes can somewhat be recreated with granular mode of the sampler...

does ableton have more audio mangling options/effects than bitwig?

I wouldn´t say more... different yes... nevertheless the workflow in Ableton is still ahead imho

At the very end the difference between these two are very small...
If I had decide between these 2 I would go with Bitwig even if Ableton imho is still ahead for audio editing workflow but I expect more from Bitwig in future than from Ableton as stated many times in the other thread...

[Trancit]

...
At the end of the day that's pretty much how I feel as well. I just wanted to point out an area where I thought Ableton was kind of slow compared to the competition.

As you were right... I personally hate the browser workflow in Ableton... having to switch back and forward between my samples and my plugins in the same window during production is a PITA

[Caine123]

thx a lot guys what i can remember in a workshop how great the audio to midi function was from ableton. sorry im getting offtopic on my own, but any ableton users can confirm?
in the workshop he showed 2 songs and it was pretty damn helpful & accurate to see which notes and scales were a song. i tested this in fl studio and it wasnt as good.

[dreamstate42]

thx a lot guys what i can remember in a workshop how great the audio to midi function was from ableton. sorry im getting offtopic on my own, but any ableton users can confirm?
in the workshop he showed 2 songs and it was pretty damn helpful & accurate to see which notes and scales were a song. i tested this in fl studio and it wasnt as good.

I would say from experience it can be really helpful, but it depends a lot on how dry/wet the audio is you run through it, e.g. if there is a lot of delay or reverb on a sound, the timing of the notes is usually off. Then again that might to be expected when doing this kind of analysis

[Caine123]

thx a lot guys what i can remember in a workshop how great the audio to midi function was from ableton. sorry im getting offtopic on my own, but any ableton users can confirm?
in the workshop he showed 2 songs and it was pretty damn helpful & accurate to see which notes and scales were a song. i tested this in fl studio and it wasnt as good.

I would say from experience it can be really helpful, but it depends a lot on how dry/wet the audio is you run through it, e.g. if there is a lot of delay or reverb on a sound, the timing of the notes is usually off. Then again that might to be expected when doing this kind of analysis

thx, good to read

[v1o]

If you make music strictly using audio manipulation you're best using a multitask audio editor. Either Soundforge or Audition. Acid is also a nice middle ground. Burial uses Soundforge to make his 100% sample based music. Some Hip Hop people use Audition/Cool Edit to sample their vinyl and sequence it.

[gentleclockdivider]

Renoise + cdp as lua extension

[pottering]

Perhaps you´ve got the wrong workflow whatever you try to achieve there...
I find for sure many stuff which is hard to do in Reaper too...

Obviously it's an extreme example but how would you add volume variations to audio clips in a faster way in Ableton? I'm all ears.

Not mouse, but you can MIDI assign a knob to the Clip Gain knob in one clip, it will then work with any selected Clip, not only the only you did the MIDI assign.

Also:

Grooves. They can be applied to audio, and with audio the Velocity parameter in the Groove Pool changes gain instead of MIDI velocity.

Auto Pan

Velocity MIDI device

EDIT: You can also slide the contents of an Audio Clip in Arrangement, with Ctrl+Shift+Drag (ALT+Shift+Drag on Mac).

[Kinh]

Perhaps you´ve got the wrong workflow whatever you try to achieve there...
I find for sure many stuff which is hard to do in Reaper too...

Obviously it's an extreme example but how would you add volume variations to audio clips in a faster way in Ableton? I'm all ears.

Not mouse, but you can MIDI assign a knob to the Clip Gain knob in one clip, it will then work with any selected Clip, not only the only you did the MIDI assign.

Also:

Grooves. They can be applied to audio, and with audio the Velocity parameter in the Groove Pool changes gain instead of MIDI velocity.

Shit, groove applied to audio no-a-good idea. You should slice dem and apply groove to tha 'midi' slices not transient points of audio

[telecode]

When i watch videos on youtube how easy, with great quality warping etc the audio editing is i wonder if it is the best daw for it? Or is it bullshit? What are your opinions? As a fl studio user i always find  audio  Editing a pain and use mostly 3rd party samplers.

FWIW.. I think if I was starting again from scratch, I would probably get into Live and Push just because it seems Ableton Max for Live[1] might be a very powerful tool and there seem to be some very interesting sound design artists that are doing great work that are using it to create really experimental sounds and music.

That being said, I don't think there is such a thing as a "best DAW" for sound design. I think it all comes down to how much you use the full functionality of the software tools you have on your setup. I personally use Cubase and am a big Maschine hardware user -- so I have already invested my time in the hardware, software and ecosystem, and I feel I get all the tools I need for the sound design stuff I do. I mostly manipulate audio in Padshop and work within the restrictions it imposes on me. Its good enough for what I do.

Now I go back to watching the Reaper >< Bitwig <> ($insert your fav DAW) thread.





[1] https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/