Is ABLETON the best daw for audio manipluation?

[telecode]

I like popcorn and i like these kinds of threads. they make me eat more popcorn.

where is the obligatory "Yo, Reaper is BEST" poster? He is missing, is he sick?

[SLiC]

Having just tried the demo of Live 10 (I have 9 suite) to see if its worth the upgrade whilst it is 30% off I have been objectively measuring audio manipulation against Bigwig 3 (which I have been using far more than Live lately) and I have to say that for my workflow Bigwig wins the vast majority of the time. Just in clip audio editing alone (drag to select, split, reverse or scale 50% then double for glitch- all in clip). 5 granular and 3 spectral starch modes (plus normal stuff) and wavetable and granular also in the sampler! + the gain, pan, pitch and formant in clip and layer mdii over clip helps with alignment (hybrid view). The main thing for me is being able to find the audio I want to edit and that is where Bitwig really shines with the (pop up and side) browser that has extensive logical search functions and the ability to make fast 'smart collections'.

It's waaayyy ahead of bitwig. You gotsta spend more time on it. The tings you mention'd aren't really important. Anythin' new you learn will seem awkward at first whether you learn Japanese, fishin' or riding a freakin' bike. I'm sure dere are many Ableton users who try Bitwig wit as many complaints az you

A I said, my opinion is based on owning and using Live 9 suite and have been an active Live user (including some time owning a studio) for over 15 years (since V4) - you?

[tcrano]

Live has lifted my production to new levels. Especially in combination with Splice.

[Distorted Horizon]

Dont listen to them, they dont know what they're talkin' bout. What they're saying basically applies to people who work in session view AND arrangement view, yet many who work in Ableton only work in arrangement view which is faster workflow than bitwig. Also you dont 'drag' from session view anyway, you hit the record button which only takes as long as the length of the song. So, in a nutshell they're looking for ways to make life harder in Ableton rather than easier in order to justify their bitwig choice.
No one who's serious about being accomplished at anything looks for the harder approach unless they're looking for an excuse to give up.
Bitwig is all over the shop, where is Live is more streamlined and in front of you.

Don't listen to Kinh, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Arrangement AND session view is faster in Bitwig. Doing that record is plain stupid, especially when you want to edit audio clip.
In a nutshell, abledon't makes simple things harder and blame others about it.

[Caine123]

thx guys, as i got bitwig and now ableton lite i can test it.

i also appreciate the help and opinions and i think overall if someone says A is better than B he/she should show why and not only bash the other product . in the end we are the consumers and thats it, no one wins in this when downtalking the other product especially if it is not true, again overall said.

[mtelesha]

Bitwig 3 and Waveform 10 have all I need. They are both modular and you can manipulate in a million ways. Bitwig isn't for everyone but man the audio manipulation is second to none.

[dj projector]

Clip launching has kind of run it's course and it's not as popular as it once was for DJing. I'm sure this is tied into the overpriced Ableton Live making a company wide cut of 30% across the board. But it seems to be a more reasonable competitor to linear DAWs, now with all the functionality for audio.

[Kinh]

thx guys, as i got bitwig and now ableton lite i can test it.

i also appreciate the help and opinions and i think overall if someone says A is better than B he/she should show why and not only bash the other product . in the end we are the consumers and thats it, no one wins in this when downtalking the other product especially if it is not true, again overall said.

It's pretty hard to not bash the other product if you're doing A/B comparisons. End of the day it's personal choice but if bitwig and ableton are all you're looking at then ableton wins the audio manipulation race by a long shot.
You really want the advice of people who use the daw and are proficient, rather than those who are good at using a different product because those people's opinions are gonna be about why you shouldn't use it.

[quincy]

I normally avoid these kinds of discussions (once they've descended into arguments) but this time I'll bite.

I've used both Ableton and Bitwig for years. I had Bitwig since it was in alpha and Ableton for many years although I can't remember exactly how many. I have both products open in front of me now (Latest stable Bitwig, latest Ableton 10).

They are VERY similar in audio editing capabilities but differ in some workflow areas. In both DAWs you can slice and rearrange audio, use fades, change pitch and time independently, use multiple stretch modes, slice based on transients or beat markers, reverse audio clips. In both cases you can bounce/consolidate rearranged audio into a new audio file with various options. You can choose to apply FX or not when bouncing (different process in both but you can get the same results in the end).

It's really a matter of taste for workflow here. It's actually easier in some ways to bounce/consolidate audio in Bitwig because there is a dialog with various options for pre/post FX processing and sample rates etc whereas with Ableton you essentially have to "freeze" the track if you want FX to be applied and then drag the frozen clip into a new track or just "consolidate" to merge the audio parts into a new clip without FX. Aside from that though, there's not much to tell them apart.

I've actually been spending time with both to decide if I want to stick with Bitwig or upgrade Ableton during the sale (I have Live 10 intro) and there are certainly some significant differences between the two (mainly in workflow, GUI etc) but audio editing capabilities are pretty solid in both and you'd be able to do the same tasks in either.

[antic604]

It's actually easier in some ways to bounce/consolidate audio in Bitwig because there is a dialog with various options for pre/post FX processing and sample rates etc whereas with Ableton you essentially have to "freeze" the track if you want FX to be applied and then drag the frozen clip into a new track or just "consolidate" to merge the audio parts into a new clip without FX. Aside from that though, there's not much to tell them apart.

Yup, in this particular area Bitwig is superior.

However, you can do that faster than you describe in Live, especially if you just need a small bit from a long track: add a new audio track, set its input to "resample", solo the track you want to bounce from (enabgle/disable certain FX, if you want), set the coursor and hit record. Probably similar number of clicks, but much faster because you don't have to freeze whole track. You can obviously solo and resample anything: single track, many tracks, a Send track, Master, etc.

BTW, in Bitwig you can select clips or time and Alt+drag that selection to new track and it will be bounced-in-place on the fly (with all caveats differentiating bounce-in-place from bounce).

[Dirtgrain]

By the way, since Ableton and Bitwig come out of Berlin, I've been reading every post in the voice of Dieter von Sprockets.

[Stan Navi]

It's actually easier in some ways to bounce/consolidate audio in Bitwig because there is a dialog with various options for pre/post FX processing and sample rates etc whereas with Ableton you essentially have to "freeze" the track if you want FX to be applied and then drag the frozen clip into a new track or just "consolidate" to merge the audio parts into a new clip without FX. Aside from that though, there's not much to tell them apart.

Yup, in this particular area Bitwig is superior.

However, you can do that faster than you describe in Live, especially if you just need a small bit from a long track: add a new audio track, set its input to "resample", solo the track you want to bounce from (enabgle/disable certain FX, if you want), set the coursor and hit record. Probably similar number of clicks, but much faster because you don't have to freeze whole track. You can obviously solo and resample anything: single track, many tracks, a Send track, Master, etc.

BTW, in Bitwig you can select clips or time and Alt+drag that selection to new track and it will be bounced-in-place on the fly (with all caveats differentiating bounce-in-place from bounce).

In Bitwig it is also fast, no need to hit record, just create empty clip on master track in selected area, then bounce it.

[antic604]

In Bitwig it is also fast, no need to hit record, just create empty clip on master track in selected area, then bounce it.

I know that. I was trying to word my post very carefully, but still I failed. I mean that there's faster way to do it in Ableton than the one the other guy described. Bitwig is still faster, anyway