why they love to hate logic

[jones-y]

Btw, someone is yet to adress the matter that apple seem extremely more prolific in developing software than they are putting hardware together. Why should you be blackmailed into using that inferior hardware by means of software; and please don't even try to deny the inferior hardware (especially value for money taken into account) unless stevie now has ultimate control (not to mention proprietary rights- CoreBrain TM -) over mac users brains

Hmmmm..... Inferior hardware. I'll refer to my first post in this thread, wherein I mentioned that I own a three year old G4 mac with a CAPACITOR BROKEN OFF OF THE MOTHERBOARD FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS which is STILL RUNNING FLAWLESSLY.


Pisspisspisspisspisspisspisspisspisspisspisspisspiss


Ahhhhhhhhh............

[Sascha Franck]

Btw for all you Mac switch evangelists check out http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/

I just LOVE the "elegant optical mouse included with all desktop Macs," part of #10.
Does anybody actually USE this utter piece of shit?

[jones-y]

Btw for all you Mac switch evangelists check out http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/

I just LOVE the "elegant optical mouse included with all desktop Macs," part of #10.
Does anybody actually USE this utter piece of shit?

LOL! No.

Just for the record. I don't make it a habit of defeiding any corporation. I'm not an Apple apologist. I could care less. But I do like Apple's products, and I even prefer them. Folks, does that qualify me as an idiot? brainwashed? zealot? Or am I just entitled to my preference, like everyone else?

[Sascha Franck]

Or am I just entitled to my preference, like everyone else?

Of course you are.
I got no problems with Mac users at all, am using them myself pretty often as well (running and maintaining the Logic based studio machines at the local music university) and will most likely buy one myself pretty much soon to continue the Logic fun (just got SX3 today and am pretty much unimpressed - those dudes just won't ever get it right...).

Still, I prefer x-platform products and I also seem to prefer PCs for a whole number of reasons (which I won't list here because it might cause another bunch of hatred replies). There's only one single reason for me to buy a Mac, that's Logic for Windows being discontinued. And I'm allready pretty much sure that I won't find much further reasons.
Kinda sad to see Apple's ridiculous tactics working so fine with me...

[jones-y]

Sascha, it wasn't directed towards you personally. And I personally have nothing against Windows PC users, hell, I am one! Its just that it really gets under my skin when people go deriding one corp and/or its customers as if the competitors weren't just as culpable.

When it all boils down to it, they're tools used to make music. So make some dang music, and get on with life people (again, not directed at you Sascha). If Apple goes out of business tomorrow. I'd use my mac until it blew up (secretly hoping Lengeling, et. al. revive PC support) and then I'd get a PC and make some dang music. Nuff said.

And yeah, Apple's plot to rule the world is slowly sucking you in, Sascha, but I'm willing to bet you have, sometime in your adult life, bought MS Office. Or maybe Publisher, or FrontPage, or Money, and then at another point, you more than likely upgraded this software package you bought, just to find out that your papers, spreadsheets, flyers websites or bank account didn't look any better after it. Yeah maybe it got easier to create new stuff, or maybe some new functionality made you more productive, it may have even given you new inspirations at times. But of course, you felt justified in the money you spent, because it allowed you to be productive, but you still could have been productive without spending that money.

Why did I just type that last paragraph? I lost my train of thought. Maybe I was trying to make a point?








Just kidding, point is if MS or Apple (or whoever) gets you to spend your money, then you feel justified. Because developers and manufacturers don't use guns. If you can't understand another persons sense of justification, fine, but people please either keep it cordial, or keep it to yourself.

[splattabreakz]

[(just got SX3 today and am pretty much unimpressed - those dudes just won't ever get it right...)

oh they DID get it right, but that was all the way back with cubase 3.7...

should have kept it simple.

[TVD]

If you don't have Logic 7, would you please stop speculating on it's features, development cycle, value etc. I have 7, and I'm busy learning why your going to be sorry you don't have a Mac... PC software: 75% crap, 25% quality... MMac software: 90% quality, 10% PC conversions...

90% quality + 10% PC conversions = 100% more people that switch to Macs because they were too scare to get their hands dirty by updating their PCs the first time.

Draw you own conclusions. I stand by my words.

[TVD]

Allright, what do I recommend to someone allready owning a PC and starting to get into, say, homerecording?
Do I recommend shelling out quite some more money to buy a Mac?
Defenitely not!

I probably wouldn't either for someone just starting out. My younger brother, still in college, has recently taken an interest in learning to make his own music instead of just dj-ing.

He's already got a cheap but decent dell pc so I suggested to him that he pick up a copy of Live 4 and some free synths and see if he's really interested in making music. Once he's had a year or two to work with this stuff I might then suggest he think about a Mac. His Live skills will transfer over directly and he can start working with Logic if he thinks he needs something more powerful than Live 4.

Of course, Live 5 might be out by then and just completely destroy everybody.

Yes...lets save some money to buy Live 5, especially if it good enough to kill Logic on PCs or Macs.

[TVD]

Did anyone really hate Logic before Mac screwed over the PC Windows clients?

Robert

I try Logic 4.5 on the PC a couple of years back.

I didn't care for it. It was never user-friendly to me. End of story.

Beside Pro-Tools or Digital Performer, I have no reason to switch to Macs anytime soon.

[TVD]

Sounds like Bill has ultimate control over your brain... Dude!

Steve "Screw" Jobs is not so innocent neither.

[egbert]

just got SX3 today and am pretty much unimpressed - those dudes just won't ever get it right

Just got mine the other day too. I tried out the warp tools on some Electric Bass parts - tidying up the timing in places. Result: no obvious artifacts - impressive.

Freeze seems to be working pretty well with a multi-output plugin like BFD All.

I take a lot of your points on SX. I don't like the mixer much -- too much wasted space to convey not enough information. If you want to see inserts and sends for a channel at the same time you need to do it in the Project window one channel at a time.

Still SX is not without its charms - the zoom in the ruler is a real timesaver.

Eg

[Sascha Franck]

Just got mine the other day too. I tried out the warp tools on some Electric Bass parts - tidying up the timing in places. Result: no obvious artifacts - impressive.

Unfortunately, I just don't seem to need all these new things...

I take a lot of your points on SX. I don't like the mixer much -- too much wasted space to convey not enough information. If you want to see inserts and sends for a channel at the same time you need to do it in the Project window one channel at a time.

Yeh - this is VERY hard to get! Also, I just HATE the way the sends and inserts use up WAY too much space

Still SX is not without its charms - the zoom in the ruler is a real timesaver.

Well, personally I just LOVE the Logic way of zooming - hold ALT (Macs: Option), rubberband something and you're just there. No need to select any funny zoom tools or whatever.

Seriously, Steinberg should just fire ANYBODY having to do with UI design because it's just more than obvious that those dudes have got no single clue about what effiency could eventually mean.
Perhaps they could find good new jobs in some toy factory.

[kuniklo]

Seriously, Steinberg should just fire ANYBODY having to do with UI design because it's just more than obvious that those dudes have got no single clue about what effiency could eventually mean.
Perhaps they could find good new jobs in some toy factory.

I think it's important to remember when discussing host UI design that you're only a beginner for a few months at most. Once you get over that hump then efficiency and flexibility start to matter a lot more. This is something that particularly appeals to me about Logic.

[FaX]

Btw for all you Mac switch evangelists check out http://www.apple.com/switch/whyswitch/

I just LOVE the "elegant optical mouse included with all desktop Macs," part of #10.
Does anybody actually USE this utter piece of shit?

LOL! No.

Just for the record. I don't make it a habit of defeiding any corporation. I'm not an Apple apologist. I could care less. But I do like Apple's products, and I even prefer them. Folks, does that qualify me as an idiot? brainwashed? zealot? Or am I just entitled to my preference, like everyone else?

Seriously is that site living in like 1989
Blue Screen of Death was like so Windows 95/98/SE .
Get over it.
Truth is my PC/Laptop(DAW) is as stable as any Mac one I've seen or used and NO I have never had a blue screen of death experience either let alone a system crash.
And OSX is NOT CRASH PROOF -seriously who are they trying to kid and whilst the G5 tower is TOP NOTCH their Laptops bar the F/W 400/800 and a few extra's are well behind the PC 8 ball in processing power.

[Sascha Franck]

I think it's important to remember when discussing host UI design that you're only a beginner for a few months at most. Once you get over that hump then efficiency and flexibility start to matter a lot more. This is something that particularly appeals to me about Logic.

DE-FUCKn-NITELY!

In Logic, you will almost certainly get WAY faster over the weeks/months/years (without even having to be slow at first), just because you can modify it a LOT to simply suit your needs.
With Cubase you're working speed doesn't increase much. Sure, you can learn a few tricks and all that, you can also modify some key commands and the likes - but that's almost about it. The program itself isn't very customizeable at all. So your working speed after a while won't increase anymore.
Just to give everybody not agreeing an example: You can't move mixer channels around freely. It's just impossible. You can hide a few but that's about it.
Oh well, another thing: In Logic you can link editors on a per-editor base. HIGHLY useful. I allways have some screensets with linked, others with un-linked editors. Cool! In Cubase you can only set this as a global preference.

Even after all these years of using Logic (and I'd even consider myself being some sort of expert regarding a few things), I still find something new almost every week, which will again increase my working speed.
And, in contrary to all the Cubase advocates, I find it to be a good thing that all these options aren't exactly available at first, because they might distract you from the general workflow when starting to get into it.

I could perhaps continue almost endlessly, just one more thing: Emagic ALLWAYS cared about workflow and efficiency a LOT. There's not a single update that didn't add anything new (and useful) to, say, the key command section.
Instead of allways trying to catch up with the latest fuzz, Emagic actually took care about their existing user base (well, at least partially), by adding some features that wouldn't even be remotely of interest to new customers.
This is something they do indeed get my praises for - especially after not having slept all night, just to see whether my excitement about SX3 would be fulfilled... unfortunately it just isn't, not at all (just imagine, I'm gonna have to use it for teaching... ugh, what a horrible thought! Is it a valid thing to tell your students "well, this is a program that only somewhat works"?).