KVR Audio

z.prime · Post by **z.prime** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:35 am

3lu5iv3 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:55 am 17x Uvi Falcon

This one is a bit tricky: if you've used presets a lot of them are sample based, which wouldn't be allowed. Just a friendly reminder to check what synthesis method those 17 instances are using. (I also thought about using Falcon, if I were to enter because so much stuff sounds great out of it, but thought better about it for this reason... both entering and using Falcon...)

3lu5iv3 · Post by **3lu5iv3** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:21 pm

z.prime wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:35 am
3lu5iv3 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:55 am 17x Uvi Falcon
This one is a bit tricky: if you've used presets a lot of them are sample based, which wouldn't be allowed. Just a friendly reminder to check what synthesis method those 17 instances are using. (I also thought about using Falcon, if I were to enter because so much stuff sounds great out of it, but thought better about it for this reason... both entering and using Falcon...)

All the basses are designed from scratch using a wavetable oscillator and drums are from drum oscillator and plucks are from presets.
Haven't used samples though.
Will my submission get disqualified?

doctorbob · Post by **doctorbob** » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:19 pm

Just depends as z.prime says if the presets use samples. I guess you mean *you* didn't use any of your own samples? But if say a drum was actually a sample of a drum and then played to sound like a drum, then it's probably not allowed. If the drum wavetable is mangled up to make a flute, that would be OK!

Not owning or knowing Falcon though, can't really comment - the "experts" here may have more to say …

GL,

dB

3lu5iv3 · Post by **3lu5iv3** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:42 am

the drum oscillator is a synth, it has sine, triangle, saw, pulse and a noise slider. it doesn't have any samples so that one is okay i guess. kind of hard to see what is okay and what is not.

z.prime · Post by **z.prime** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:08 am

3lu5iv3 wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:42 am the drum oscillator is a synth, it has sine, triangle, saw, pulse and a noise slider. it doesn't have any samples so that one is okay i guess. kind of hard to see what is okay and what is not.

Just don't use anything in the SAMPLING section here and don't use Wavetable to simulate sample playback (you would have to intentionally do this yourself, no one in their right mind would make any presets this way) and you'll be fine.

3lu5iv3 · Post by **3lu5iv3** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:32 am

z.prime wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:08 am
3lu5iv3 wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:42 am the drum oscillator is a synth, it has sine, triangle, saw, pulse and a noise slider. it doesn't have any samples so that one is okay i guess. kind of hard to see what is okay and what is not.
Just don't use anything in the SAMPLING section here and don't use Wavetable to simulate sample playback (you would have to intentionally do this yourself, no one in their right mind would make any presets this way) and you'll be fine.

Is it okay to use wavetable to simulate wavetable playback? I'm using builtin wavetables as playback device.

CrystalWizard · Post by **CrystalWizard** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:55 am

There’s lotsa synth only patches in Falcon. Just be sure to check any patches and skip any that use samples. Wavetables are fine (?) to be super technical any synth loading even a synth single waveform that is technically a sample but i think that’s ok example: if i were to use Absynth (or Alchemy) it uses single cycle samples for saw, squ, tri waves. Is this acceptable. Right?

] Peter:H [ · Post by **] Peter:H [** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:14 pm

Carl_saved wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:30 pm Hi Peter, I like this preview a lot. Beautifully groovy, and I also like the harmony in it. I like it when you go groovy.
About the "strange high pitch" sounds ... I'd not count all of them as birds, but there were definitely some in there
And nice that you left out the info on what synth you used, so we can guess I'd definitely go for some well-made VA synth. But I actually haven't used any commercial VA style synths, so I have no clue. Diva? nah... or maybe?
What do the others think?

Many thanks Carl. Good to know that it's birds in there ...
And I forgot to mention the synth because my focus was that I wanted to know whether these "bird" sounds qualify as birds...
It's Meldas MSoundFactory with mostly plain Oscillators as sound source. For 1 or 2 patches I used FM. Even the drums are made from the "Dum Synth Modules" which is a combination of up to 4 OSCs and 2 noise generators. But that's about it. The secret making Melda Sound like analog is to use Filter-Saturation, lot's of little "random" modulators and there's even some "analog" dials that were added lately

Aro · Post by **Aro** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:19 pm

CrystalWizard wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:55 am Wavetables are fine (?) to be super technical any synth loading even a synth single waveform that is technically a sample but i think that’s ok example: if i were to use Absynth (or Alchemy) it uses single cycle samples for saw, squ, tri waves. Is this acceptable. Right?

How would a softsynth produce, say a sine wave, if it wasn't using a single waveform sample?

] Peter:H [ · Post by **] Peter:H [** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:30 pm

Aro wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:19 pm
CrystalWizard wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:55 am Wavetables are fine (?) to be super technical any synth loading even a synth single waveform that is technically a sample but i think that’s ok example: if i were to use Absynth (or Alchemy) it uses single cycle samples for saw, squ, tri waves. Is this acceptable. Right?
How would a softsynth produce, say a sine wave, if it wasn't using a single waveform sample?

Use the sine function.
Can you read code? Here's a "How to programm a VST Synth" tutorial. The tutor describes how he's synthesizing sine, square and saw with maths, check out here: http://martin-finke.de/blog/articles/au ... waveforms/
Second link describes how he overcomes aliasing, as well with clever applied maths: http://martin-finke.de/blog/articles/au ... scillator/
The rest of the chapters is a good read also.

Aiynzahev · Post by **Aiynzahev** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:58 pm

FrogsInPants · Post by **FrogsInPants** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:26 pm

3lu5iv3 wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:32 am Is it okay to use wavetable to simulate wavetable playback? I'm using builtin wavetables as playback device.

The rule in OSC 130 was "Wavetables are allowed, but should not be used as sample playback engine i.e. to replicate recorded instruments or vocal phrases directly, but rather to synthesise, morph and mangle single cycle waveforms." I recall there was a clarification that no more than 2 single cycle waveforms could be used per patch, but a quick look didn't turn up a definitive answer. It seems like this is a question that keeps popping up, so perhaps a clarification in the Samples section of the OSC rules page would be helpful.

Aro · Post by **Aro** » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:53 pm

] Peter:H [ wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:30 pm
Aro wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:19 pm
CrystalWizard wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:55 am Wavetables are fine (?) to be super technical any synth loading even a synth single waveform that is technically a sample but i think that’s ok example: if i were to use Absynth (or Alchemy) it uses single cycle samples for saw, squ, tri waves. Is this acceptable. Right?
How would a softsynth produce, say a sine wave, if it wasn't using a single waveform sample?
Use the sine function.
Can you read code? Here's a "How to programm a VST Synth" tutorial. The tutor describes how he's synthesizing sine, square and saw with maths, check out here: http://martin-finke.de/blog/articles/au ... waveforms/
Second link describes how he overcomes aliasing, as well with clever applied maths: http://martin-finke.de/blog/articles/au ... scillator/
The rest of the chapters is a good read also.

Aw I see. Math!

Thanks for the tips on programming. If I had many lives I would totally be down on doing the reading.

z.prime · Post by **z.prime** » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:07 am

FrogsInPants wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:26 pm"Wavetables are allowed, but should not be used as sample playback engine i.e. to replicate recorded instruments or vocal phrases directly, but rather to synthesise, morph and mangle single cycle waveforms." I recall there was a clarification that no more than 2 single cycle waveforms could be used per patch, but a quick look didn't turn up a definitive answer. It seems like this is a question that keeps popping up, so perhaps a clarification in the Samples section of the OSC rules page would be helpful.

Definitely would help explain things.

Personally, I think any size of wavetable should be allowed so long as it is not played back in a linear manner to emulate sample playback. If there was some way to phrase whatever the decision is clearly, I'm sure that would help the wavetable oscillator debate quite a bit. It seems the only real issue is basically creating sample playback... creating sample playback... creating sample playback... creating sample playback...

RichardSemper · Post by **RichardSemper** » Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:42 am

"Wavetables are allowed, but should not be used as sample playback engine i.e. to replicate recorded instruments or vocal phrases directly, but rather to synthesise, morph and mangle single cycle waveforms."
This was my attempt to phrase it as clearly as possible. Its a difficult one: we know the object of this competition is about synthesis, and sampling is not allowed, but I feel we should be able to exploit wavetables with more than two single-cycle waveforms without it becoming mere sample playback. We don't want to cripple the power and functionality of wavetable synthesis with arbitrary rules, so this is more of a guidance and statement of intent. I would love to make it clearer if that is possible.

One Synth Challenge #134: Easter Lockdown Special - Any Synth (Voting Ended. Results pending)