Why is Ableton so slow to release updates?

[elxsound]

Just glossed through the table of contents.... This is a solid book, not just a brief guide.

[Trancit]

If the same money is spent, Ableton is a joke compared to Bitwig... perhaps not unimportant for some trying to make a decision between these 2...

Over what time period? Ableton doesnt cost £160 a year on top of the purchase price.

If the Abe´s would release at Bitwig´s pace meaning 2 major release instead of 1 in 5 years it would be more or less the same...
Being slow doesn´t mean less expensive...
Compare the amount of important new features on both sides in the same time and divide them with the upgrade costs...I guess Bitwig is cheaper per feature than Ableton beside not having to wait that long and that is what I would pay for if I were a Bitwig user

[antic604]

Update: April 8, 2020

We’ve reduced the price on all editions of Live by 30%. This offer includes new licenses as well as upgrades. Log in to see your available upgrades.
In collaboration with Max for Cats and Sonic Bloom, we’ve made the Stray Cats Collection, a free Pack of Max for Live devices. (Note: this Pack requires Max for Live, which is included in Live Suite or available for purchase for Live Standard.)
Our book, Making Music: 74 Creative Strategies for Electronic Music Producers, is temporarily free to download in .pdf, .mobi, and .epub format.
With Loop delayed until 2021, we’ll bring a bit of that community to you at home. We’re planning three days of curated live streams and daily music-making challenges, as well as a place to discuss the process of making music and share results. Save the dates: April 24-26. More info is coming soon.

especially for the Music Making book!

[machinesworking]

The question is - is it worth it? Are the benefits of switching to Logic or DP10 (or whatever) for a specific feature that's implemented brilliantly there offset the time you need to "waste" transferring stuff from one DAW to the other, adjusting to different shortcuts, keeping the software up to date, etc.?

Is it worth it to own more than 4 synths? Realistically there are no rules. A friend of mine is a huge fan of Hive, he's made a whole album where Hive is 90% of the synths on it, and in a few songs it's the only synth or sound maker. I introduced him to Live and he's stuck by it.

In terms of rules, there are none. If your approach isn't working, ditch it, that's the only rule that makes sense.

And even more importantly, does it come across in the music, i.e. is it better for it? For example, if I primariliy worked in Live and would briefly switch to Bitwig for its modulation, would my music really sound better? Would I finish it sooner? I'm not sure.

I've only rarely ported a song to another DAW for reasons like this, mostly right at the beginning. I think with no doubt that the DAW barely affects my music. The looping capabilities of Live and Bitwig may push you towards working in a certain way, but in the end it's all up to you.

My motto currently is: use the DAW that does best the things you do the most of and that pisses you the least for everything else.

Also, using 3 DAWs I try to stick to 1 project = 1 DAW rule, which means:
- Bitwig projects will be more focused on sound design & modulation, i.e. more "trippy"
- Reason projects will be more generative/random but simpler, because of abundance of great sequencers there and propensity for projects getting unwieldy once they get bigger,
- Studio One project will be more focused on harmony & melody rather than sound design, because of great MIDI tools, incl. chord track

In the bigger picture I agree, but again, without making any solid rules about it.
Mostly I use one of the two "kinds" of DAWs, big linear sequencers or modern looping time stretching on the fly types. For the most part I tend to find that when I have ideas before I start up a sequencer, I'm reaching for DP, or some similar "full featured" DAW. I want to mess around with noise, have no idea to start with? I'm firing up Live.
If I find any of this a hassle, I just stick with a single DAW for a while. In general I could see that as being the case at some point. I'm in transition between singers and projects and have the time to explore. I think given the vast differences between DAWs and the expectations of the users I'll always use two DAWs probably, but they are all getting features from each other all the time.

I think there are some advantages to learning only one DAW and sticking by it, but there are definitely advantages to knowing more than one DAW. Rules are for the most part, counterproductive to the creative process, unless you're being frozen by choices.

[docbot]

Having bought and used Bitwig for a few months now, I'm actually really excited for a new Ableton version.

Bitwig has some killer features, but Ableton outclasses it when it comes to basic usability, which is a bit wierd. Everything in Bitwig is a bit cumbersome and requires an unnecessary amount of clicks compared to Live. Even basic screen real estate is used better in Ableton. Bitwig is missing not just the timeline overview, but also the little mini overview of your device tracks and the shortcuts to zoom in and out of regions in Ableton are very handy. Live might not have The Grid, but it's design is so to the point, that I'm really starting to miss it <3

[machinesworking]

Having bought and used Bitwig for a few months now, I'm actually really excited for a new Ableton version.

Bitwig has some killer features, but Ableton outclasses it when it comes to basic usability, which is a bit wierd. Everything in Bitwig is a bit cumbersome and requires an unnecessary amount of clicks compared to Live. Even basic screen real estate is used better in Ableton. Bitwig is missing not just the timeline overview, but also the little mini overview of your device tracks and the shortcuts to zoom in and out of regions in Ableton are very handy. Live might not have The Grid, but it's design is so to the point, that I'm really starting to miss it <3

There are plusses and minuses for sure. Live still does Rewire, Push works as a controller with Live in Rewire mode, so Live is useful even at times when PT, DP, Logic etc. are used. Live has video support, and editing with Max/Jitter. Live is better looking. Bitwig looks like a toy.

But I can't say that it's true though about shortcuts, even with a bug or two, Bitwig far outclasses Live in shortcuts. Zooming for instance, it's literally select, then z, z again to zoom out. MIDI editing wise, the "Shift ~" to toggle full MIDI and automation editing is far better than the mouse dragging this requires in Live. they're editable as well, you can create your own, something completely missing in Live, except as a hack on OSX because OSX allows you to assign a key command to any Menu item. Even selecting a preset in Live is more of a pita, Bitwig's entire browser is a contextual menu.

[Yorrrrrr]

Yes, similar experience here. I've been trying Bitwig, and despite some great features (several of them I would like to have in Live)..but Live has the right balance of everything. My workflow is way faster in it when compared to other programs.

So, I'm excited for the future of Live. I hope this slowness to release updates just means that they will come with something big rather sooner than later. I hope at least a version 10.2 or 10.5 is close.

[.jon]

Zooming for instance, it's literally select, then z, z again to zoom out.

In Live this is literally select, then z, x to zoom out.

But I agree about Live's shortcuts, there could be more and I would prefer to modify them.

[machinesworking]

Zooming for instance, it's literally select, then z, z again to zoom out.

In Live this is literally select, then z, x to zoom out.

But I agree about Live's shortcuts, there could be more and I would prefer to modify them.

Thanks for the reminder. The main complaint I have in Live remains though, editing MIDI is constrained to the edit sub window, it's a mouse click drag festival to really get full screen. They added the ability to have two open windows, but left it at Arrangement and Session. The sub windows are not allowed to grow with key commands etc.

[.jon]

You can make the piano roll full screen once, then toggle between it and other views with Alt-L.

[tooneba]

Live needs separate height state for audio clip editor and midi clip editor.

[machinesworking]

You can make the piano roll full screen once, then toggle between it and other views with Alt-L.

Believe me I'm well aware of all that. Using Live since 2003.
It's a wrist killing workaround, there's no pretty way to put it, but I'm obviously in the minority with how I feel about it because Ableton and the rest of the user base sees no problem with it.

Despite my gripes I really do like Live, it's just this and the CPU hit it takes that give me frustration when using it. Unlike a lot of people I really appreciate the GUI when dealing with Reaper or Bitwig for any length of time.

[revvy]

Joking, nm

[dupont]

because it's a business, certified trainers prefer to wait until there is something new to sell to the trainees.

[antic604]

You can make the piano roll full screen once, then toggle between it and other views with Alt-L.

Huh!? It's interesting that it's either LEFT Ctrl+Alt+L or RIGHT Alt+L (without Ctrl). I never knew that