why they love to hate logic

[meister eder]

Well, personally I just LOVE the Logic way of zooming - hold ALT (Macs: Option), rubberband something and you're just there. No need to select any funny zoom tools or whatever.

Mac: 'Control', or right mouse button if you want. (Just for the record, because it is one of my favourite and most used functions as well )

[Sascha Franck]

Mac: 'Control', or right mouse button if you want. (Just for the record, because it is one of my favourite and most used functions as well )

I ALLWAYS mix those up, even when I'm in front of a Mac (which isn't the case when I'm typing here).
Usually takes me quite a while until I'm into it.
Talking about the benefits of using both platforms, eh...

[Chickenman]

Hmmm... where I come from a "wanker" is a bad guitar player... Must be a "Euro" thing?

Nah we call excessive guitar hystrionics wanking over here as well.... I'm pretty sad though, cos I went blind

As for the "Ubermensch"....

I'm gonna go find me a pro-tools forum to keep me amused for the night.

[mauseoleum]

As for the "Ubermensch"....

I doubt you'll find more *dedicated* characters as nuendo-lovers ever ... especially those with some outboard ... don't know, but steinis DID something to them

[Chickenman]

As for the "Ubermensch"....

I doubt you'll find more *dedicated* characters as nuendo-lovers ever ... especially those with some outboard ... don't know, but steinis DID something to them

We got a beer called Steinlager over here... Few Steiny's definately does something to me

"I like Nirvana, doesn't mean I'll shoot myself"
(Kiwi band Elemenop)

[DHR53]

I'm sort of sorry to hear that SX3 is not "the bomb" like they said... It's always been my contigency plan (sort of)... plus, I just heard that Apple is going to start charging for tech support for Logic 7.0 after 90 days... Time to stock up on tutorials and FAQs!... What happened to the good old days? ...Propellarheads! where are you???

[original flipper]

HI

I have been learning SXV3 these last 3-4 days and feel that I have a reasonable grasp of it, I even think I can take a step back and say I am not comparing it with Logic (I am a Logic PC user for the last few years) .... but you know what it just aint working for me - I just can't get comfortable with it.

The good thing for me is that I am still waiting for my new DAW and this gives me time to work out what I am going to use, I considered a move to a Mac - but I am happy with how the PC platform works for me.

I am going to use the next few weeks to figure out what I want to use, the only other possible is Samplitude V8 - but although similar (in certain ways) to Logic I don't find V7.2 to be particularly appealing after a second period spent demoing it.

I have always liked Orion, I hear there is a major update coming soon, if it can add that extra bit of stability to it I think I will go with it, along with Live and XT this should do the job, I also purchased Adobe Audition for compiling Cd's - Audition looks quite awesome and could figure in things as well.

To finish on SX, I think this probably works well for many people, but as has been said; things like the mixer layout, connecting up instruments and fx just don't feel comfortable, the overall layout is graphically very nice but again I find there is too much space taken up by features that should be less intrusive, I just don't like the 'mechanics' of how it works - I will spend a few more sessions with it though, just to see if I can 'jig' it to suit me.

Flipper.

[mauseoleum]

I'm pretty much suspicious that anything related to *pro* software will come in form which at the very end of the day collects *pro* income for the vendor. And market techniques similar to Wavefronts price-drops few years ago. So it makes me wonder what techniques are used to *convince* seemingly pro users to migrate to more *heavyweight* equipment (at least in terms of software). Well I'm speaking of stein/pinnacle practice here, because that's what's here, but more or less same pressure can be seen elsewhere.

Or not?

[spritex]

HI
I am going to use the next few weeks to figure out what I want to use, the only other possible is Samplitude V8 - but although similar (in certain ways) to Logic I don't find V7.2 to be particularly appealing after a second period spent demoing it.

Out of curiosity: What is Logic 5.5.1 missing that you absolutely need? Even if you have to loose the smooth Logic feel? (Unless you go Mac.)

I have also been eyeing Cubase SX and others but they seem "clumsy" for lack of a better word.

[Sascha Franck]

plus, I just heard that Apple is going to start charging for tech support for Logic 7.0 after 90 days...

From what I know, that's the usual Apple policy of support.
But then, seriously, if you got internet access, you don't need Logic support.
There's the LUG (Logic User Group at Yahoo) - if you can't find help with anything Logic related and beyond there, you probably won't find it anywhere.
It's actually the best and well-mannered mailing list I've ever been on.

I actually don't even know whether it's such a bad thing to charge for some support - just try to call any M$ support...

[Sascha Franck]

HI

I have been learning SXV3 these last 3-4 days and feel that I have a reasonable grasp of it, I even think I can take a step back and say I am not comparing it with Logic (I am a Logic PC user for the last few years) .... but you know what it just aint working for me - I just can't get comfortable with it.

You know, the truly bad thing is, I don't even want to try out all the good things that SX might have over Logic 5.5.1., such as audio warp and whatever.
Just because the program is so much messed up in almost every area.
It's really sad to see a program which technically could really do a kickass job actually catching NONE of my interest.
Seriously, every single thing I do in it takes up a lot more time than compared to the same action in Logic, clutters up my workspace (I've got two 17" flats at 1280x1024 which is just working VERY nice with Logic), gets close to being unuseable on my laptop and constantly surprises me with incredibly stupid implementations of a whole bunch of working speed related things.

All SX has done so far is making me think about where to get the money for a G5 from.

But well, I need to learn it due to my job, so I'm somewhat hoping things will get at least a little bit better.
Of course, the lousy plugins coming with SX don't exactly help...

Still, for all of my own stuff I can't see myself switching at all, not yet at least.
Well, that's what you get from knowing a program inside out, almost like a friend (I allways said so, Logic for me feels more like an instrument, rather than a tool to get things done).

[original flipper]

HI

In answer to "spritex" question; I use a lot of plug-ins, and I was increasingly finding bugs that ranged from workable to un-usable - developers are very helpfull but it get's to a point where they just can't spend the time supporting a 'DEAD' application, I was having lots of problems with my vst folder refusing to load or see plug-ins after a certain amount had been installed (this was admitedly a lot), I was having too many crashes that could not be put down to anything in particular, I also started to experience Logic refusing to open saved songs.

I was running Logic on a custom Carillon DAW - I can only assume that the issues were mainly related to plug-ins that were no longer being developed and beta'd with Logic in mind.

So for me the reason to move on was what I have described along with the fact that I was upgrading my DAW as I obviously needed more 'Muscle' to power the plug-ins that I now wanted to use.

If I had little or no interest or need to run newer plug-ins I don't think I would have needed to move on, but in my case the problems oulined were not going to get any better.

Unlike 'Sascha' although I see issues with SX I also think this is general of any individuals preference - I mean we individually see things that we like or dislike, are prepared to accept or reject - I don't feel anger or disdain towards any Host - I simply 'FEEL' I can work with it as a tool or that I will be unhappy making compromises to the way I want to work.

My reasoning behind not getting a G5/Logic7 combo are (thank goodness I still have a reasonable balance on my credit card - not for long though!) simply the same reasons - that I know through using a Mac in the past - I will not feel comfortable using it and have the choice of finding something suitable on the PC.

I would not underestimate the disruption that changing a host can cause - for some it's no big deal for others it's a bloody nightmare .

Flipper.

[spritex]

Flipper, did you know that most plugin problems can be resolved by using EnergyXT and/or Chainer as a shell for the plugins in Logic?

[original flipper]

HI

I wish you had told me that 6 months ago !

No, I was using Chainer and towards the end XT, as I said time to move on, for me.

I could have gone another year maybe but once you start experiencing lost songs and shit like that you get nervous!

Like I said though Logic PC will not be supported by developers to any major degree and sooner rather than later this will have an impact - especially if you wish to keep buying up to date vst's.

Flipper.

[spritex]

I can see why you might want to move on, but...

If something works in - say - EnergyXT it also works in Logic. Logic just thinks it is using the EnergyXT. That's what I think at least. As a bonus, you get MIDI learn and control for all VSTi/FX parameters.

There might be some stranger VSTis/FXs that cause crashes anyway, but I think they are a minority. (And could just as well cause crashes in other hosts!)

BTW, you can usually see what .dll is causing the crash if you press a button in the windows error dialog. If Logic crashes when you load that song (i.e. "loosing" the song), you can rename that VSTi .dll to .bak or whatever. The song should load then, just without using the problematic VSTi/FX.