KVR Audio

scocat42 · Post by **scocat42** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:33 pm

Ok, I'm at a cross roads on which to get since I can only afford one. If you could only have one between Ableton Live 4 and Cubase SL 3 which would you choose and why?

Thanks

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:42 pm

Live 4 for me. It enables you to get a track going quicker than any other host I've used. The warp tools really are so much more than just pitch shifters and slicers for audio. They enable you to work very fast and break down/build up your tracks in many fascinating ways.

Plus its just bloody good fun

kagemusha · Post by **kagemusha** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:44 pm

Cubase because it's much more, and Live is only that.

But soon there will come somebody to tell you to get live...

With the play order track and audio warp function in Cubase you could do practical the same.
I just think Cubase is a more complete product

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:45 pm

You can download the Live 4 demo and work through the tutorials to see if you like it.

Personally if I could only have one I'd take Live any day.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:47 pm

kagemusha wrote: With the play order track and audio warp function in Cubase you could do partical the same.

I was hoping that these new features in Cubase would close the gap but they're not even close. You can't switch between play order sections with the keyboard, there's nothing like Live's global quantize. Warp in Cubase is *much* more complicated.

If you think these features are equivalent you haven't spent enough time in Live.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:48 pm

kagemusha wrote:Cubase because it's much more, and Live is only that....

But soon there will come somebody to tell you to get live...

With the play order track and audio warp function in Cubase you could do partical the same.

I have no experience of cubase, bt i doubt it can match live for audio mashing capabilities.

I say this only because if it could do all that, it would have the hype surrounding it which Live does. But it doesn't.

Each to their own methinks

aaastronomer · Post by **aaastronomer** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:51 pm

imho, live 4 gives a better cost performance ratio!

scocat42 · Post by **scocat42** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:52 pm

kuniklo wrote:You can download the Live 4 demo and work through the tutorials to see if you like it.

Personally if I could only have one I'd take Live any day.

I did download it and I have been playing with it. It s really cool and I was able to get things working within minutes versus using an old version of Cubase. What I'm also confused about is the mixdown capabilities that I think might be better in Cubase, but most of the time I'm just jotting down ideas and never get that far.

I also need to know though that I can record up to 4 tracks+ simultaneously.

Goa Head · Post by **Goa Head** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:55 pm

Buy Cubase... Learn it. In the meantime, save for Live, and rewire it. Then you have both.

quincy · Post by **quincy** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:55 pm

I think some people seperate the erm, live features of Live from the arranging/recording.

The 2 are actually very well integrated, meaning that you can quickly turn quick jammed arrangenments into a recorded song that can then be edited to perfection.

I find this the most intuitive way of arranging i've ever encountered. It takes seconds not minutes to re-arrange the parts of your songs and try new structures etc, all of which for me means i can get something down while its still (briefly) fresh in my head

kagemusha · Post by **kagemusha** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:55 pm

kuniklo wrote:
kagemusha wrote: With the play order track and audio warp function in Cubase you could do partical the same.
I was hoping that these new features in Cubase would close the gap but they're not even close. You can't switch between play order sections with the keyboard, there's nothing like Live's global quantize. Warp in Cubase is *much* more complicated.

If you think these features are equivalent you haven't spent enough time in Live.

I'm using eXT in cubase for such things.
The playorder track is very powerfull but not as live as Live. It has another concept of marking regions of musical sequences. It's less isolated and also less compulsive to force you into loops; it gives more room for structuring.
I tried every Live demo with every new version and I really don't see what others seem to see in it.
In my eyes it' a very one way directional concept.

Muff Wiggler · Post by **Muff Wiggler** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:58 pm

f**k, i'm gonna have to set aside some time and try out this Live 4 beastie I think

i'm a cubase nut, but quincy's comments (and others) make me think I might just be missing something pretty attractive. I sure can't turn a quick 'jam n' sketch' into a full arrangement in Cubase, that's for sure....not knocking Cubase, all I ever expected from it is a powerful multitrack, with audio+midi integration, and i've been delighted with it along those lines...

pHz · Post by **pHz** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:14 pm

moving more and more towards live as my only sequencing tool as the weeks go by (fl-studio is barely opened these days and tracktion is really only there to service old unfinished stuff) ...

... as has been said there is probably no better app out there for knocking ideas together quickly and although not as complex as cubase / sonar / et al the often overlooked arrangement aspect of live4 is more than enough to get a track mixed (mmmnnn ... vector mixing) and exported to audition for 'mastering' ...

... my highlights of live4 ??? ...

- the 2 new sampler and drum machine instruments (basic looking but quick to use and deceptively powerful)
- warp markers
- just about (IMHO) the best automation system out there (both per-clip and on a track basis)
- its ability to record EVERYTHING you do as part of your track for editing afterwards
- configurable pseudo-modular interface
- ABSOLUTE stability
- dead easy MIDI binding for any exposed parameters (host and plugins)

... my only real gripe is the inability to EASILY (it can be done but its a workaround) export each individual track (or clip) as a seperate .wav file ...

... never really used cubase (other than a demo for testing my old synthedit VSTi creations) so i cant really compare but as you MIGHT have guessed i REALLY like live4

slainte

rob

aaastronomer · Post by **aaastronomer** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:17 pm

oh...and let's not forget the funky bugs in cubase sx 1.x...cubase halts and stutters on every change to a track...vsts can bring cubase down on init...cubase can lose your projects...i've even seen it make changes to the notes in my midi tracks! (it would have been one thing if those changes were good, but they suxed big time!!)...

now, i hope these problems got fixed in sx v.2, without introducing any new bugs...however, v.2 didn't last long enough for me to get a good impression of what fixes were made before v.3 was announced! so now, i'll wait to see how cubase sx3 works out...

in the meantime, live 4 does the job really well...oh, and the clip 'after events' are really cool too...as well as the effects...

i'd say that what live 4 does that cubase can't is:

smoothly allow you to drill down into audio and midi clips to sequence specific parts without stopping the flow of musical events...this makes composing faster and more intuitive than cubase, where you're better off stopping the sequence to cut clips up...

oh...and, its way cheaper too!

original flipper · Post by **original flipper** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:28 pm

HI

I supposse it's live then?

Or, perhaps you should pop over to cubase.net and see what the feeling is over there - not forgetting to drop by the Ableton forum.

Just get the demoes - there is a demo of SXV1 around although that is a lttle dated - but it will give you an idea, the Live4 demo is at Ableton.

At any given time you could get a completely different turn out here - I mean of people to advise you on 'their' favourite, you really don't want to make a mistake when it comes to your host, you haven't given any indicator of how or what you use a host for - although you did get a good response from people telling you what they use theirs for!

There are a whole load of other host applications out there as well, I am not reccommending it but I bet I could knock up an 8 track tune quicker in Orion or Logic - and I have both Sx & Live, if your not experienced they could both freak you if your not dedicated.

Flipper.

Ableton Live 4 versus Cubase