Studio One Version 5.0 Predictions and Requests

[antic604]

I'm hoping for Midi 2.0 support

Why? Are there any controllers or VSTs using it yet?

EDIT: ok, there's this: https://www.soundonsound.com/music-busi ... ng-midi-20

[koalaboy]

I'm hoping for Midi 2.0 support

Why? Are there any controllers or VSTs using it yet?

Not specifically, but knowing how long it takes DAWs to get these things working seamlessly, starting now means there a chance it will be usable properly by the time the instruments come out.

[kevvvvv]

recursive one

Can something like that be done with a thrid party tool in S1?

Shaperbox helps

Use as aux send

Shaperbox works as a nice modulation halfway house so bitwiggy things can be done in S1

Not perfect, I know, but S1 sounds more interesting with it.

I don't know if Presonus have the mindset to implement something along these lines.

They've never been at the cutting edge of sound design. Sound, yes, sound design, no.

[recursive one]

What if you want the same LFO to control something in the synth and something in the effect sitting on that synth? Or in two synths you've layered togther? What if you want the amount or speed of this LFO to be also controlled by something else?

Can something like that be done with a thrid party tool in S1?

LFO Tool or MIDI Shaper can output envelope/LFO to specified MIDI CC, that can be "learned" by plugins the same way they "learn" controllers. But it's nowhere near as flexible and easy to set up as a native solution.

Thanks, good to know.

Having a native tool would be still more handy though.

[antic604]

recursive one

Can something like that be done with a thrid party tool in S1?

Shaperbox helps

Use as aux send

Shaperbox works as a nice modulation halfway house so bitwiggy things can be done in S1

You either have no idea what Shaperbox or Bitwig does, or both.

[antic604]

I'm hoping for Midi 2.0 support

Why? Are there any controllers or VSTs using it yet?

Not specifically, but knowing how long it takes DAWs to get these things working seamlessly, starting now means there a chance it will be usable properly by the time the instruments come out.

Oh, OK. I understood we're talking about v5 here and it's expected to be released sometime in May, so I thought it would be to early for MIDI 2.0.

On the other hand this makes me think they've started been preparing for it long time ago:

S1 MIDI.png

[Trancit]

What if you want the same LFO to control something in the synth and something in the effect sitting on that synth? Or in two synths you've layered togther?
Can something like that be done with a thrid party tool in S1?

Very easy i.e. in Mux or Bidule... load the plugins in there make the connection from the LFO or whatever you use to as many targets as you like and there you go...

Second... many synths are offering that good fx and options to modulate these (i.e. Falcon or Phase Plant) that often you can do everything in one plugin without having to switch and modulate something else

What if you want the amount or speed of this LFO to be also controlled by something else?

No problem... modulation or complex modulation wasn´t invented by Bitwig... all they did is they took the concepts from others and finetuned them a bit with a nice visual feedback and making it uniform... This doesn´t mean that there isn´t a way outside of Bitwig...

Just take a deeper look into the modulation system of FL Studio with the crazy math form you can apply to every modulated parameter turning the incoming signal even if it´s a simple sine LFO into some crazy chaos with ease...
FLS offered btw since ages the ability to modulate everything anywhere in the project without wonky DC offset/Audio rate Mod routings ... and since it´s as well a VSTi... it´s another solution for a very flexible 3rd party way...

It´s sometimes a bit more work and often it doesn´t have this visual feedback but very often you gain a much higher control and flexibility for the extra effort...

3rd party solutions gives you on top of that a freedom Bitwig will ever be able to offer...
Bitwig works only with/within...you guess it... Bitwig...
3rd party work (saveable) in any DAW supporting VST´s...

Let´s say you built a huge collection of templates and what not inside of Bitwig and something happens that you want to make a switch to another DAW and even if it´s just for one project...
What can you take with you... NOTHING!!!!
What can you take with you with 3rd party solutions... EVERYTHING!!!!

That makes a little bit of a difference, doesn´t it???

[recursive one]

What if you want the same LFO to control something in the synth and something in the effect sitting on that synth? Or in two synths you've layered togther?
Can something like that be done with a thrid party tool in S1?

Very easy i.e. in Mux or Bidule... load the plugins in there make the connection from the LFO or whatever you use to as many targets as you like and there you go...

Second... many synths are offering that good fx and options to modulate these (i.e. Falcon or Phase Plant) that often you can do everything in one plugin without having to switch and modulate something else
...
What can you take with you with 3rd party solutions... EVERYTHING!!!!

So the solution you propose is to buy loads of third party stuff, some of which is very expensive, to solve one very specific task



Of course, like any other guy here I already have quite a few third party plugins and my own workarounds for things I can't accomplish with dedicated native DAW tools. And I'l probably buy that MIDI shaper, thanks to Antic604 I now know that it exists and what it does.

But in my opinion, while synths and mixing plugins should be left to third party developers all the MIIDI programming and parameter controller things should the DAW's duty.

For the record I never onwed Bitwig nor any other DAW except for Studio One, and that LFO/envleope controller stuff is the only thing I miss in it. Ofc, I'm not going to buy another DAW just to have it.

[Trancit]

So the solution you propose is to buy loads of third party stuff, some of which is very expensive, to solve one very specific task

...

Sorry, but this is a quite lame argument...

1. In the case of i.e. Studio One you bought a DAW which is so much more capable of everything against Bitwig apart from modulation...
Bitwig is lacking of so many core DAW features that you would have to spend a whole lot of money if there would be ways to fill the gaps... just for having a good modulation system??

2. I bet most even of the Bitwig user own already one of the following instrument or want to buy it anyway:
- Falcon
- Avenger
- Serum (with FX version on top)
- Pigments
- Massive or Massive X
- Reaktor or other modular enviroments with heavy modulation capabilities (with an FX version on top)
- UA Lion
- Rapid (with FX version on top)
or one of many others with superb modulation and good fx...

3. a license of Mutools MUX which is more than enough to replace 99% of what Bitwig offers in terms of modulation and has a very well done synth/sampler/wavetable/FM/granular and fx engine included for costs of 68,-€ ... a bit more than 1/3 of Bitwig´s 1 year update period...

PS: Even if I wish they wouldn´t waste their time with that... I wouldn´t be angry with a nice native solution for that topic neither... but in general...I would prefer other stuff first...

[SLiC]

Sorry, but this is a quite lame argument...

1. In the case of i.e. Studio One you bought a DAW which is so much more capable of everything against Bitwig apart from modulation...

Bitwig is lacking of so many core DAW features that you would have to spend a whole lot of money if there would be ways to fill the gaps... just for having a good modulation system??

I use Bitwig and Studio One extensively and this could not be further from the truth.

Studio One is not built on a 'rack' paradigm that changes workflow and sound design significantly, there is no clip launcher (it is not designed to arrange and play/DJ live), there is no integrated modular sound and fx designer, no native CV support, no special 'tablet version designed for small screen touch use...etc

You could do a very long list for either program, one is not more capable than the other, they are both designed for and suited to different tasks.

[chk071]

So they ARE less capable in the area the other succeeds in.

[Trancit]

I use Bitwig and Studio One extensively and this could not be further from the truth.

Studio One is not built on a 'rack' paradigm that changes workflow and sound design significantly, there is no clip launcher (it is not designed to arrange and play/DJ live), there is no integrated modular sound and fx designer, no native CV support, no special 'tablet version designed for small screen touch use...etc

You could do a very long list for either program, one is not more capable than the other, they are both designed for and suited to different tasks.

So basically you completely agree with me...

Apart from the clip launcher all what you mentioned is plugin/sound engine related...
I talked about the DAW... composition tools like the Chord track, the Arranger track, Macros, Comping, ARA2 support, Groove quantization with saveable user grooves, advanced Pattern editor etc...etc...pp
Things you cannot work around... if they are lacking... they are lacking ...period...
Most what you mentioned can easily be done by 3rd party plugins...

Bitwig compared to this is an extense Instrument/FX/Modulation system with some DAW features build around for basic sequencing... (not meant in a bad way)

Thx for confirming...

[SLiC]

I use Bitwig and Studio One extensively and this could not be further from the truth.

Studio One is not built on a 'rack' paradigm that changes workflow and sound design significantly, there is no clip launcher (it is not designed to arrange and play/DJ live), there is no integrated modular sound and fx designer, no native CV support, no special 'tablet version designed for small screen touch use...etc

You could do a very long list for either program, one is not more capable than the other, they are both designed for and suited to different tasks.

So basically you completely agree with me...

Apart from the clip launcher all what you mentioned is plugin/sound engine related...
I talked about the DAW... composition tools like the Chord track, the Arranger track, Macros, Comping, ARA2 support, Groove quantization with saveable user grooves, advanced Pattern editor etc...etc...pp
Things you cannot work around... if they are lacking... they are lacking ...period...
Most what you mentioned can easily be done by 3rd party plugins...

Bitwig compared to this is an extense Instrument/FX/Modulation system with some DAW features build around for basic sequencing... (not meant in a bad way)

Thx for confirming...

Yes, Studio one is just a standard linear sequencer and you could easily achieve exactly the same results with Cubase, Logic, Reaper etc, they are all very similar in my experience.

Bitwig (and Live) are different tools for music creation that the other DAWs can not replicate without non linear arrangements as you said

Some people (like me) like to be able to work with the advantages of either methodology, so we have both. Could be Cubase and Live, Could be S1 and Bitwig...any combo works and gives you the best of both worlds.

You could start to emulate some of Bitwigs other built in features in a other DAWS by adding Reaktor, CV tools, modulators etc, but it would not be as well integrated or simple to use (especially without the rack workflow which I vastly prefer to the emulated mixer routing paradigm) but this is obviously personal choice...Bitwig is the only DAW I have found to work out of the box with MPE which is important to me -I have found what works for me, that’s all anyone needs to do.

[EnGee]

You are "idiot" if you can't make music with either! Grrrr!!! (inspired by someone )

[antic604]

You are "idiot" if you can't make music with either! Grrrr!!! (inspired by someone )

Although above is meant to be a joke, many people think that and it is a pretty shallow point of view, IMO.

I probably wouldn't even bother 'producing' music if it wasn't for DAWs like Live, Bitwig or Reason (and probably FL, that's impenetrable to me), because I mostly don't care about traditional harmonic and linear stuff. I mean I like good chord progression, clever arrangement and evocative melody as much as the next guy, but whole 'fun' of music for me is in sound design and movement of stuff. When I get some good bassline going in terms of the rhythm, groove and pitches, I'll immediately start experimenting with oscillators, swapping patches in certain places, splitting the sound in frequency bands, left/right and mid/side and applying different things to them - reverbs, delays, distortions, transient shapers, gates, etc. in multiple combinations, serial chains but also parallel layers that either all work at once or are switched between in some way. Then I'd be adding modulations to all of that, usually random or semi-random (e.g. step sequencers with weird step counts). Then I move to another sound - a pad, a lead, hihats, percussion loop - and repeat the process...

DAWs that I mentioned facilitate such (weird, as it is!) process by making all of this very easy and fast; and even if Bitwig might be bested by M4L in terms of pure potential it's head and shoulders above any other DAW in how intuitive and inspiring it is and how it allows to quickly try stuff I described above out. In big part it's the modulators that triggered this whole discussion, but it's also all the splitters, layers & receiver devices that make it work so well.

It's true that the end result - to the listener, at least - can be achieved by stacking Reaktor, Byome/Triad, FX manglers, etc. in a "normal" DAW, but workflow is the difference. And that workflow really does inform the music.

So what I'm trying to say perhaps is that I can write music in any DAW, but the music I WANT TO write I can reliably, with fun & pleasure do only in few of them. Whether others find that music appealing or even tolerable is a different thing altogether, though