KVR Audio

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:52 am

Well, I don't know if they are many people, but sure some think that the excessive care about sound design is a shallow point of view

What I mean, I like the workflow in these both DAWs, but the composing/arrangement side is much more important than the sound design. I have enough tools for that , so I don't need the DAWs help, so I guess I'm in the other camp

jamcat · Post by **jamcat** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:24 am

I don't get why this BitWig keeps getting mentioned here.

Studio One and BitWig are polar opposites, and should remain so. And they will.
Hoping Studio One takes any cues from BitWig will only lead to disappointment, so let it go.

Studio One is a multitrack recorder for musicians who play instruments, in the tradition of Cubase and ProTools.

In fact, Studio One was developed by former Steinberg programmers who had previously developed Cubase SX and the VST3 spec. They left Steinberg around the same time that Cubase went off the rails. These events are clearly related, but it's unclear which one was the cause and which one is the effect.

So I don't think PreSonus is looking to let Studio One to go off the rails like Cubase did.
BitWig is a fringe cult. Following it would be suicide for Studio One, and PreSonus knows it.
But the BitWiggers might be able to get Steinberg to adopt their ideas.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:31 am

Bitwig might become the new Reaper.

Anyway, what many here don't seem to understand is that you have to specialize, otherwise your software becomes a not to handle Frankenstein of a mixture of thrown together stuff which is not fun to use at all. But, as a developer, you would have "listened to the user".

The one who knows the least what a good piece of software is about.

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:40 am

EnGee wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:52 amWhat I mean, I like the workflow in these both DAWs, but the composing/arrangement side is much more important than the sound design.

For YOU, perhaps.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:42 am

I agree with you, different tools for differing tasks, but it is amazing how many people want to 'merge' all of the features with linear DAWS and more experimental music platforms like Live and Bitwig (for example Logic is introducing an Ableton Live like 'clip launcher' for example as did DP).

People seem to what one DAW that has the complexity to record and mix an orchestra, and the simplicity to let it be used by a DJ launching loops...I think if you try that you will end up with a complex mess in the middle...but I think I am in the minority, most people seem to want that 'one DAW' solution and they enviously eye the tools in other DAWS.

I think some of it has to do with market saturation, all the major DAWS are now supurb, they can all be had relatively cheaply with cross grades and sales and they predominantly divide the market between Logic, Cubase, S1 and Reaper etc...there realy is very little between these platforms as I said...they are all great and full of features.

The 'easy' target is the very large segment of users that dont normally use DAWS from this very competitive sector (which includes studio one), people who normally use 'Live', FL Studio or Bitwig for example as this is a potentially very large (maybe larger than the traditional DAWS?) untapped market of potential new users...it must be tempting as it makes business sense as long as you don't loose your existing customer base!

PS- I think Bitwig gest mentioned as that is currently where most of the innovation has been and it updates a lot so there is always something new to talk about! All DAWS borrow from each other and a good idea is a good idea (I feature suggested Bitwig copy Studio Ones comping and added ARA2

)...steal like an artist and all that. Bitwig could defiantly use a few of the more standard features like comping, but I think it will come (quite soon), but I don't ever expect to be able to use Bitwig for what I use Studio One for (recording live bands etc) and visa versa.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:48 am

SLiC wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:42 am I agree with you, different tools for differing tasks, but it is amazing how many people want to 'merge' all of the features with linear DAWS and more experimental music platforms like Live and Bitwig (for example Logic is introducing an Ableton Live like 'clip launcher' for example as did DP).

People seem to what one DAW that has the complexity to record and mix an orchestra, and the simplicity to let it be used by a DJ launching loops...I think if you try that you will end up with a complex mess in the middle...but I think I am in the minority, most people seem to want that 'one DAW' solution and they enviously eye the tools in other DAWS.

Dunno about that. Forum opinions != the general public's opinion. It might be completely different out there.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:56 am

chk071 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:48 am
SLiC wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:42 am I agree with you, different tools for differing tasks, but it is amazing how many people want to 'merge' all of the features with linear DAWS and more experimental music platforms like Live and Bitwig (for example Logic is introducing an Ableton Live like 'clip launcher' for example as did DP).

People seem to what one DAW that has the complexity to record and mix an orchestra, and the simplicity to let it be used by a DJ launching loops...I think if you try that you will end up with a complex mess in the middle...but I think I am in the minority, most people seem to want that 'one DAW' solution and they enviously eye the tools in other DAWS.
Dunno about that. Forum opinions != the general public's opinion. It might be completely different out there.

I hope so, but the recent trend for major linear DAWS to add 'clip launchers' would seem to indicate otherwise

https://www.musicradar.com/news/is-logi ... -recording
https://cdm.link/2019/02/dp10-adds-clip ... motus-daw/

My guess is that Presonus and Steinberg will both copy 'Logic' as it is too big a feature to leave unchallenged (as it could change my initial premise that they all do the same thing slightly differently if Logic could do what Studio One does and what Live does for example... it all depends how well it works and how well it is implemented...but if it is realy well done it could eat in to Ableton's share of the apple market....)

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:02 am

jamcat wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:24 amStudio One and BitWig are polar opposites, and should remain so. And they will.

They aren't, they shouldn't and they won't. At least I hope they won't. There's no reason for some DAW to not get into half way between 'creative' and 'traditional' DAWs and draw the best features from either and shed all the superfluous crap.

So far S1 does pretty good job, being a more streamlined, lighter version of Cubase or ProTools with enough of their features that for MOST people it's perfectly enough: all the stuff, without the fluff. There are many people in "Bitwig camp" that are there mostly for modulation they don't need Grid, don't need that weird "pitch" stuff from v3.1, or touch support, or plugin sandboxing, or hybrid tracks, etc. All of those things are usually brought up - also by me

- to say how grat Bitwig is, but for majority of people they really only care about few of them. And if some other dev can pick that up and bring it over to their product, they might see a lot of new users. Bitwig's development can be described as weird & unpredictable, in that they're focusing on some unexpected thing in each release that appeals to minority users, while the rest get scraps of what they need. If you're the right person, you might find that the "unexected things" might've been something you really wanted without realising it or that the way it was implemented changed your perception of whether it's useful for you or not. But that is also a risky strategy, because many people can get frustrated waiting for them to implement things that seem within reach (simple example - audio quantize: they have stretch markers, they have great stretching algos, they know where the grid lines are; why it's still not there??).

I, and probably others posting there, don't want S1 to become Bitwig. I'd love to see S1 taking best ideas from Bitwig, just like they took the idea of extended FX chains, or multi-instruments, or scratch pads, or project page, or drag & drop from somewhere and refined them to make them a genuine part of their DAW.

EDIT: hehe, I'm one of SLiC's "those people"

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:53 am

antic604 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:40 am
EnGee wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:52 amWhat I mean, I like the workflow in these both DAWs, but the composing/arrangement side is much more important than the sound design.
For YOU, perhaps.

Yes for me of course

Well, I'm spending more time with S1 than Bitwig these days and the only thing I miss is the clip launcher. Oh and the better hardware integration with nektar P4.

I have already done the Maschine setup (channels and midi) with Studio one and I already have Battery pitches names

I also begin to use my Casio keyboard sounds with an easy navigation (in Cubase it is even easier as there is already an instrument definition for it). So, yeah! I like S1 more these days and if in the future, they implement a clip launcher, it might be the only one I use

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:56 am

Are you back to Windows?

recursive one · Post by **recursive one** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:03 am

I've got no problems with making purely electornic music heavily relying on sound-design and modulations in Studio One. As I said, something like an inetrnal LFO/MSEG controller would facilitate making some specific sounds/modulations but I have my workarounds and third party stuff that replace it to an extent.

I see Studio One as a kind of streamlined derivative of Cubase, the latter being a staple for many electronic music producers (psytrance/DnB/IDM whatever) for years since the SX times, along with Logic

I also know people who make traditional songs with acoustic instruments and linear composition in FL Studio.

So it's not the DAW, it's how you use it.

Bitwig gives me headache just by looking at it.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:03 am

chk071 wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:56 am Are you back to Windows?

Are you talkin' me? (Taxi Driver)

I have never abandoned Windows! Recently I was dual booting with Linux (Ubuntu) but when I updated it, Bitwig ceased to function and it the update made a mess. This and other reasons, made me delete the Linux partition and made a Windows only PC baby

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:12 am

Ah, okay.

I thought you switched completely to Linux, and used Bitwig only.

Let's just say that I'm not surprised. Linux (no matter which distribution) has always been a mess for me, and, audio is even worse...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:14 am

recursive one wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:03 am I see Studio One as a kind of streamlined derivative of Cubase, the latter being a staple for many electronic music producers (psytrance/DnB/IDM whatever) for years since the SX times, along with Logic

That's exactly what it is for me too.

dellboy · Post by **dellboy** » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:22 am

We are in a thread about Studio One and yet all the talk is about "Bitwig", why ?

I would like pattern based recording like Ableton Live to be introduced into Studio One, but I have no need for a "clip launcher" to launch other peoples "clips". I see no reason why pattern based recording could not be seamlessly introduced into Studio One, or Cubase, or any linear DAW.

Does no one else use Live or Bitwig session view as a recording tool rather than just for "launching clips" ?

Or do they use session view to record there own clips and then launch them ?

But as Bitwig has been mentioned, I have to say I find its session view recording to be clunky compared to Ableton.

Studio One Version 5.0 Predictions and Requests