Synth recommendation for a newbie

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claudedefaren wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:48 amNo it doesn't. Price does not correlate with ease-of-learning for a synthesizer anymore than it does a guitar.
So you're telling me that if I learn to play guitar on an Epiphone Pro SG, for example, I won't be able to pick up a Les Paul, plug it into my amp and play it without having to learn new and different techniques/skills? Seems unlikely to me. If you still use the same stomp boxes, the same amp and the same cabinet, I'm thinking you can pick up any guitar and it will work exactly the same way. Sure, it won't sound the same but that won't be down to anything you can learn to fix the situation. It is very obviously a completely different situation.
Revvy's point is that skipping the "beginner instrument" stage, meaning don't buy a cheap thing you won't love later on with poor resale value, yielded a very positive result for him. I'm of the same mind myself.
I think that's just what you wanted to get from what he wrote because it is certainly not implied in anything he said. The reality is that if you buy a $200 guitar it will have exactly the same features and functions as a $2000 guitar, there will be nothing to learn when going from one to the other. After all, how many pots and switches does even the most expensive guitar have? A Rhythm/Lead switch plus some simple combination of volume and tone knobs. No manual to read, no deep-diving into an interface, just simplicity itself, no matter how much you spend.

OTOH, softsynths run the full gamut - there are synths a novice could learn in a few hours and there are synths that even the most experienced professional will need to spend hundreds of hours with before they know it inside and out. And price isn't a guide to quality, either. Tyrell N6, for example, is a freebie that sounds as good as any $200 plugin. So if the guitar thing was meant to be an analogy, it was a really shithouse one.
arkmabat wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:01 pmThe steep learning curve on a cheap guitar with thick strings and poor bridge calibration can be enough to give up. There's a huge difference from a Walmart guitar and a cheap Fender.
That's learning to play, just like learning to play on a cheap keyboard can be a pretty shit experience. When it comes to learning the instrument, most electric guitars have a switch and up to four knobs and they all do the same thing on every guitar, cheap or expensive.
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Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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BONES wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 2:22 am So if the guitar thing was meant to be an analogy, it was a really shithouse one.
I compared a cheap synth to a shithouse, thanks for playing!
I lost my heart in Cap de Creus

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JO512 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 3:54 pmAre you sure it isn't just the loudness of the filter by default that makes you feel this way? It is VERY LOUD! Turn up the resonance and it is clipping at over +3dB.
I imagine that's why the filters have output volume knobs, so it's all a matter of how you loud you want it to be. But if you hit the BOOST button, you get an entirely different tone, even at more "normal" volumes. No synth is loud in that sense because they all have volume controls. As I've been banging on about in another thread, it is always possible to tame a loud synth by turning it down but if a synth is too quiet, it can be a real pain to get it to fit into a mix.
You mentioned unison voices. I set Synthmaster One to the init preset and just turned up the unisons and there is no gain compensation at all! They just add up! Set it to ten and it hits nearly +9dB without even engaging the filter!
Which is exactly how it should work. You are stacking voices so it should get much louder as you do. Again, that's why there are volume knobs all over SM One - for each oscillator, for each sub-oscillator for each filter and for the amp.
Turn on the filter, open it up and you are at over +13dB!!!
That's perfect in Orion, because the default position of a channel volume slider is -18dB. But again, where is the master volume when you are getting +13dB? Having to trim the gain is a blessing, not a curse.
Turning up the number of unison voices in Serum doesn't increase the overall level very much. The level increases even less in Pigments. That's how it should be!
Not according to the laws of physics, which makes me wonder if Pigments and Serum aren't cheating the unison with a chorus effect or some such thing.
You don't want the level to increase like that with added unisons. If it does, you can't modulate it nicely!
What, modulate the unison voice count? What kind of idiot would want to do that?
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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peakles wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:49 pmI also liked the Pigments interface, but the sound seems pretty electronic music oriented, if I'm not wrong.
Actually, I think you are wrong. Whilst Pigments is good for electronic stuff, the sample playback engine included in Version 2 broadens it's sonic palette considerably. I'd say it is one of the most versatile synths I have and it's $99 at the moment. You could definitely do a lot worse.
EnGee wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:37 pmAnyway, if I could restart again, I would choose either u-he Hive or Synthmaster One because they are both are easy to use with a great workflow and one page philosophy. They are also can accompany you for all your journey in synthesis.
Those are both excellent suggestions, for the reasons stated. I am guilty of not thinking to use SM One as often as I should. It is a really solid synth and would be great for a beginner. Same for Hive, although I find I use it less since the upgrade to v2. It feels a bit like they have tried to cram too much in and it's lost some of its immediacy. It sounds amazing, though, and has some very good presets.
EnGee wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 6:38 amI had Pigments and sold it (no regrets at all). I still don't get it about sound quality! I didn't like it at all. Very thin. I take Synthmaster One over it any day.
Now that I can't agree with. I'd take Pigments over SM One or Hive. It is a far more versatile synth than either with a unique workflow that makes it a joy to use. Yes, sometimes I do struggle a bit to get it working in a mix but that is true of pretty much every synth, so it is not a deal breaker for me.

That said, I do think SM One is a solid choice for a first synth and I would definitely recommend it over Pigments for a beginner.
dlt123 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 6:43 amAlso just bought UVI Falcon. It's got a steep learning curve, but the sounds you get out of Falcon are simply amazing, precise, and so deep.
Don't you think Falcon might be a bit daunting for a beginner?
claudedefaren wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 3:29 pmI used to compare synths' just by their dry saw sounds and found that they're mostly all the same with some exceptions. But that's not useful. For the most part a basic saw is a basic saw, you'll find the differences that matter in the other aspects I mentioned above.
I think you are being too clinical/technical. The best synths are more than the sum of their parts. Look at Thorn as a great example - no one part of it stands out but all those parts working together,= create just about the best sounding synth money can buy. It is very easy to get caught up in the minutiae but I think it misses the point.
claudedefaren wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 5:56 pmI am really not a fan of the workflow of pigments. There's way too much going on visually and things are not placed intuitively for me.
Seriously? You are the first person I have ever heard being in any way critical of Pigments' UI or workflow. I think it is an absolute stand-out, probably the best I have ever seen. And everything is EXACTLY where you'd expect to find it, I took to it like a duck to water.
Hive's unison rips it to shreds IMO.
Really, which mode? Because Pigments has three different style of unison, not just the one style fits all of Hive. And I think Pigments' "Classic" unison is pretty much identical to Hive's unison, to the point I can't tell one from the other. I can pick the differences in the sawtooth wave I am using unison on, Pigments is slightly grittier (which is good), but the unison itself sounds the same.
Watch the number value as you adjust the envelopes (or anything) in Synthmaster one. It's super buggy. You it jumps all over the place, it's near impossible to get it exactly where you want it to be even when holding shift
Not here, I can adjust in increments of +/- 0.001, or +/- 0.1 seconds on an envelope, smoothly and accurately with Shift held down. It's no worse than any other VSTi I use and better than some.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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bones:

I don't engage with you as it's futile (witness all of your posts on her since forever) but I know you interpret lack of engagement as a moral victory, like you've scared somebody off. For once, I'll take the time to show you where you were wrong.


Let's see how it all panned out. OP wrote:
peakles wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:13 pm Hi there!

I'm a guitar player ( :dog: ) who is beginning in the world of synths (through Syntorial). And there are SO MANY synth options that is difficult to judge where I should start. I'd like something versatile with good presets and something where I can work on through the Syntorial lessons.

Could anyone recommend me some synth to start but that I would keep and develop on?

Thanks a lot!
I replied:
revvy wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:47 am OP: use something that inspires you, cheap or expensive, simple or complex.
OP said:
peakles wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:53 pm Hey guys, thanks a lot for all the replies.

I will definitely check all your suggestions, and I think that the idea of having something which is inspiring makes a lot of sense.
so I elaborated and OP responded in a nice exchange:
peakles wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:16 pm
revvy wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:21 am OP, I did the opposite move to you recently.

I actually bought a guitar well above beginner level because I wanted to, had the cash and wanted to be inspired.

Result: my fave musical HW is now my guitar, love it and play it to death, much more than any of my HW or SW synths.

Good sound and inspirational. The cost is only as relevant as your own budgetary limits.
Nice to hear about that! I hope you can have a lot of fun and much inspiration by your guitar! =) It is certainly a different world and (once this quarantine nightmare is over) is an instrument which you can carry easily, and I hope this will also make you enjoy it even more. Go to a park or to almost any place and being able to play it is amazing. =)

Have fun!
My entire focus is the importance being inspired regardless of anything else.

You then said:
BONES wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:33 am
revvy wrote: Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:21 amI actually bought a guitar well above beginner level because I wanted to, had the cash and wanted to be inspired.
That's a different situation, though, because it isn't any harder to learn an expensive guitar than a cheap one.
This makes no sense as nowhere was I talking about expensive being easier or more difficult to learn. As you continue to flog this dead horse I can only assume that you have misunderstood me. When I said 'above beginner level' I was referring to buying an expensive first instrument rather than buying the cheap shit that most beginner guitar players buy.

In fact I'd argue it is actually a bit easier to learn on a good guitar from a technical point of view as it plays better. But that's all by the by, I was talking about inspiration.
I lost my heart in Cap de Creus

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revvy wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 3:35 amI don't engage with you as it's futile (witness all of your posts on her since forever) but I know you interpret lack of engagement as a moral victory,
You rate yourself too highly. And, of course, you think it is all about personalities, you can't separate objective fact from biased opinion. I don't care about winning or losing, I only care about what is real and what is perceived. I try to champion reality over perception. I present the facts, if someone is too stupid to see them for what they are, that's their problem, not mine.
In this case, without requoting your quotes, you were trying to equate performance with functionality but they are two different things. The best example I could give is that playing a KeyStep is far more inspiring than playing the MS20 controller that originally came with Korg's Legacy Collection. Even though both use mini-keys, the quality of the keybed in the KS is night and day compared to what's in the MS20. As the OP wasn't asking which is the easiest synth to learn to play, I fail to see the relevance of any part of your guitar post. That's all. Simple. Nothing to take personally. When you failed to make any connection to the topic at hand after I prompted you, I assumed you were having a lot of fun with your guitar and simply felt the need to tell everyone. But no, you have to get all defensive. Honestly, it's pathetic how many people around here are so thin-skinned that they cannot take even the mildest criticism without getting their nose out of joint. You need to grow up.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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e-crooner wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:28 pmkHs One does not exactly sound warm, no. Makes me wonder about the hearing of those who praised it on their site.
Why does it have to sound "warm"? What does "warm" even mean? kHs One is a terrific bread and butter synth. I used it for a while and then started buying a few more sophisticated synths, like Hive and Thorn, and I forgot about it for a while. But a couple of weeks ago I dredged up some old projects and I couldn't believe how good it sounded. I'd used it to replace parts previously made with my 32 bit SynthEdit synths and it does a very creditable job of some pretty difficult timbres. One was something from Maxx Claster's Toxic FM synth and another was something where I had originally automated the decay on a looping envelope and it does both beautifully. It's back on my list of "gotta use this more" synths.
JO512 wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:41 pm Here is an audio file with a filter sweep from Pigments on one side and Hive on the other. Guess which is which. I didn't get levels perfectly normalized, as you can see, as the one on the left is slightly louder, which is apparent in the waveform. Still, you should get my point.
Where would you use a sound like that? I can't see the point. It's how it sounds in the real world, in a mix, that counts. What sort of basslines it can do, what kind of arpeggios, leads and pads. The kinds of arcane tests you are doing are pointless.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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Hink wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:37 pm
Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Flaming or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated and will result in your post being edited / deleted, and you may be issued with a warning and / or a ban.
Like I said.....
Teksonik wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:43 pm
Hink wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:37 pm Flaming or abusing users in any way will sometimes be tolerated
FTFY. :wink:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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nah
Last edited by revvy on Sun May 03, 2020 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
I lost my heart in Cap de Creus

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Sylenth 1 is ya wanna spend, or synth 1 for free
100 High Quality Soundsets: Omnisphere 2, Dune 3, Tone 2 Synths, Pigments, Uhe Synths, Halion, Spire, and others.

TTU Youtube

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Touch The Universe wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 5:04 am Sylenth 1 is ya wanna spend, or synth 1 for free
I'd agree with that.
I lost my heart in Cap de Creus

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...
Last edited by claudedefaren on Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BONES wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 3:50 am
e-crooner wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 8:28 pmkHs One does not exactly sound warm, no. Makes me wonder about the hearing of those who praised it on their site.
Why does it have to sound "warm"? What does "warm" even mean? kHs One is a terrific bread and butter synth. I used it for a while and then started buying a few more sophisticated synths, like Hive and Thorn, and I forgot about it for a while. But a couple of weeks ago I dredged up some old projects and I couldn't believe how good it sounded. I'd used it to replace parts previously made with my 32 bit SynthEdit synths and it does a very creditable job of some pretty difficult timbres. One was something from Maxx Claster's Toxic FM synth and another was something where I had originally automated the decay on a looping envelope and it does both beautifully. It's back on my list of "gotta use this more" synths.
I remember trying it, for instance it just wouldn't do soft pads the way I like them.
I don't need harsh sounds such as FM, but I can see, or hear rather, why it fits your needs :wink:

But for 20 euros it is not bad at all, as a special effects synth. If they had not abandoned it, I might have bought it. Then again, for less than 40 eurosI get Memorymoon's Messiah, which sounds very different in my view, in a positive way. And its user interface is also very appealing to me.

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