Is Live 4 really useless for MIDI?

[WillieJenkins]

man, these things ALL come down to workflow and preference.


To me, the ability to real-time input midi while looping makes it one of the best midi implementations I've EVER used. Multi-outs is kinda screwy, but for speed of inputting and duplicating midi clips and creating variations, Live is the fastest thing I've used by about 3-5x!

[LBN]

That's hysterical - barely useable LMAO
That's why the stuff I'm working on has at least 14 midi tracks w/VST's per composition.
It's as useable as a Yamaha QY / MMT8 / QX-1 or ASQ-10 hardware sequencer anyday of the week.
Don't know what drqks you're all on seriously.
ACID 4.0 is barely useable midi .
Or cant you guys hits record and play a keyboard ?

[visa tapani]

To me, the ability to real-time input midi while looping makes it one of the best midi implementations I've EVER used.

What does this mean then? Many host allow you to set a loop, play rec, and punch in anything you want on each reiteration of the looped section...

[WillieJenkins]

yeah, but the way live does it is the smoothest I've seen by FAR

[DHR53]

Let me ask you this, (and see if it was as annoying to you, as me?)...

I play a drum loop in a session view slot, activate an instrument in a midi slot and hit record... The clip starts recording, and I start playing... Of course since there is no count-in, I miss the beginning usually, and my notes start filling in 1 bar, in the middle of say, a 3 bar clip... Now I have to zoom in to the piano roll, find the beginning, and move the bar to line up with the area (beginning and end) that I want to actually play when that clip is activated in session view... So I have a 3 bar clip, that I really only wanted to be 1 bar... That happened a lot... So why didn't I just record in Arrange? Good question, never could seem to get the zoom level on midi clips to be usable in session view! Which meant more back and forth, etc. etc. Maybe it was just me... But I was always fiddling around, jumping back and forth... and making weird variations of a drum loop, instead of making songs... I may be too Old School?

[r_module]

since there is no count-in, I miss the beginning usually,

try this:

- create an empty clip (hit record for a few seconds) and
set its "follow action" to a suitable bar length (e.g. 4).
as "action type" select "next".
- copy this blank clip into the next slot
- arm recording
- press "play" on blank clip 1.
- after x bars (according to FA settings) the next clip
starts and you'll record into that clip, hopefully in time...
- use additional "FA record" clips for recording of a
series of xBar-clips. then you can choose the best
recordings of a bunch.

(it's a good idea to set a drumloop in another track as a metronome)

[DHR53]

Interesting! I'll try that... Can you set the FA to be after 1 bar or 2 or 3?? I couldn't remember whether that was possible... I experimented with the clip actions for awhile, but never applied it to that purpose... Probably a lot deeper than most people know, just have to spend more time with it I guess. I've learned too many programs already... Mastered few!

[munchkin]

Live 4 has comprehensive midi implimentation. I've had all my questions about midi implimentation answered at Abletons forum. I think you have to be registered to use it but there are plenty of threads covering midi issues that are available through the search option.

I found that it took awhile before I understood the difference in workflow between Live and Sonar. But in many instances Live has an elegant solution. It comes down, I think, to host preference rather than any over-looked midi facilities in Live.

[EnzymeX]

Let me ask you this, (and see if it was as annoying to you, as me?)...

I play a drum loop in a session view slot, activate an instrument in a midi slot and hit record... The clip starts recording, and I start playing... Of course since there is no count-in, I miss the beginning usually, and my notes start filling in 1 bar, in the middle of say, a 3 bar clip... Now I have to zoom in to the piano roll, find the beginning, and move the bar to line up with the area (beginning and end) that I want to actually play when that clip is activated in session view... So I have a 3 bar clip, that I really only wanted to be 1 bar... That happened a lot... So why didn't I just record in Arrange? Good question, never could seem to get the zoom level on midi clips to be usable in session view! Which meant more back and forth, etc. etc. Maybe it was just me... But I was always fiddling around, jumping back and forth... and making weird variations of a drum loop, instead of making songs... I may be too Old School?

You're going to laugh, the answer is too simple:

Set the global quantize to "bar", and hit play on the taskbar before you hit play on the session clip.

That's it! When you activate the drum loop in the session slot, it will start on the next upbeat of the global counter. Then, just hit the session clip you want to record after an upbeat, and it will start recording on the following upbeat.

Heck, you can even turn on the metronome using this method, and not have a beat going at all...

BTW, when I first started using Live 4 I had the very same question...it took me quite a bit of reading on Ableton's board to figure it out.

At first I was cursing, until I got my head around the elegance of the global quantize feature. (OK, I'll admit it - I mistook Live's phrase quantization implementation for some kind of MIDI note quantization feature) .

[DHR53]

Hmmm... it's easier wth a 2 bar loop, but I get your point! Probably a lot of other variations that could be used also... Who knows, I may figure it out one of these days... but clearly there are many ways to get from point A to B... Thanks for the tips!

(It's still not as efficient with the cpu as Logic is though...)

[EnzymeX]

Hmmm... it's easier wth a 2 bar loop, but I get your point! Probably a lot of other variations that could be used also... Who knows, I may figure it out one of these days... but clearly there are many ways to get from point A to B... Thanks for the tips!

(It's still not as efficient with the cpu as Logic is though...)

Agreed about the two bar count in - my 1 bar count in was just an example. In actuality, you can choose a 1, 2, 4 or 8 bar global quantize value to adjust the count in.

I don't have Logic (Sonar is my ball and chain), but let me ask you this: How many s/w hosts allow you to, for example, play a drum loop, then record multiple instrument parts over it without ever hitting the "stop" button on the drum loop?

I finally plunked down my money for Live 4 when I realized I was writing a tune every time I demo'ed the product!

[x_bruce]

When I was playing out I would have killed for the features in Live 4. In fact, as a Live 1 user I pounded on midi and VST insruments from day one.

I think those used to linear synths will eventually get why Live is so useful, but the improvising musician, holy shit! I can't move around much but give me a laptop and my guitar/bass/mixer rig and I only need a small controller. It works well with Oxygen boards.

M-Audio will no doubt be promoting Live 4 - Reason 2.5 - powered speaker line - controller line. I think they did a smart job of marketing a complete solution although I'd still want to use Sonar Pro 4 with the exported individual tracks or mix.

Live is the most intuitive tool for people recording and working. It captures the feel of the performance because the artist is there for the whole song and able to do many things while working and in post performance, like fix bad midi notes, do some creative fades or deletion of messed up audio performances. It's also stable, easy on the eyes and mature.

I'll be the midi support gets a workover before the next revision. No ACID 4, give us a year to make midi work, thanks for the $99. Abelton listens to their users. All the requests I asked for in v1 (assuming they weren't asked off list as well) were fixed by 1.5 which is still a useful software package. I've used it up until this year on mixes, some not yet released but soon to be.

Competition is heating up (ACID 5, Sonar 3/4) but considering price, availability and who you do business with I'm happy with Live and Cakewalk. Sony remains untested and may stay that way if the Acid upgrade is another gouge-fest. Frankly, they should give Acid 4 users a huge discount for sufferring through a useless Acid 4 and VST instruments for almost half a year and still never getting it quite right.

[WillieJenkins]

EnzymeX has it right, just do a normal count-in like you would with a band.

To make it even easier, map a midi note you won't use to the clips you're going to record in, so you never have to leave the midi keyboard

[DHR53]

I like the idea of putting a 1 bar clip with a basic percussion sound, and set the clip action to 1 bar and next... but I wish that when you hit record in session view, it would record the session slots, and you didn't have to manually turn on the clips sometimes... Like there was a record, that functioned for session and arrrange separately... Seems like you can use the kybd. functions more in Arrange than in session... Does that make sense? ...I did manage to set up my PCR-30 for controller use in Live, much easier than any other host I've used!

[x_bruce]

Set up an arrangement for that part in the linear editor or make the tracks involved a folder track.