OK so I'm in the process of securing a new 15" powerbook. I can upgrade my pc seqeuncer to Cubase SX 3 and use it both on my pc and powerbook. However Cubase is perfect for the PC, that doesn't mean it's right for the MAC I am interested in looking a sequencer that is properly supported, offers the most robust and stable feature set. Rewire support is also a must as I have both Reason and Live. I'll mainly be using plugins, but I do have some MIDI synths that I'd like to use as well.
So far the options I've considered:
Cubase SX3:
I've heard there is an issue with multiple audio interfaces. Is this true? Also the current lack of native support for the Tascam FW1884 is definately a serious drawback as that is something that is being considered for a future purchase. Anything else I should be aware of?
Digital Performer 4.5:
From what I've seen this seems to be a real solid candidate. Other than a lack of VST support (which ca be fixed with FXepansion VST-to-AU I should be fine, or will I?
Protools LE (Mbox):
Biggest draw backs I know of are Realtime rendering, and it is a closed system. I know Fxpansion offers a VST-to-RTAS wrapper as well. The fact that it is an industry standard however, does put me in a position to consider it.
Logic 7:
My natural assumption would be that since Apple bought emagic, that this would be hands down the best for Mac. While I hear the performance is the best, I've also heard they didn't include plugin delay compensation. Is there any reason why this shouldn't stop me from considering it? Is there a common trick or workaround that people use?
Are there any others that are of this caliber that I have missed? How do they measure up?
looking for a new sequencer for new mac powerbook
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- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Logic is best for the Mac... period! But, I'm not sure if I'd try to run it on anything less than a dual processor G4... 7 is using 25% more cpu in my experience so far... And I have a Dual 2ghz G5! Cubase just doesn't work very well on the Mac, and every time Apple updates OSX... Cubase work's even less (until they figure it out!) ...DP, people either love or hate, the support is universally derided, though! My guess: not a (small) software studio type of app! ...ProTools I tried in the old days of free LE, but it's basically an audio app, for mere mortals, or a high-end studio system for pros...(i.e. people with a lot of money!) If I were you, I'd use SX on the PC and keep Reason and Live on your Mac Powerbook... and be happy! Good Luck!
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 30 May, 2003
What about the lack of plugin delay compensation (PDC) in Logic 7? How do you get around this? Are you only using plugins? What about audio clips or midi instruments? It seems to me that PDC is essential for a mixed source studio.
I need a proper sequencer for the mac as, I will be doing mobile mutli-track recording. This being the case, I need a higher end sequencer.
I need a proper sequencer for the mac as, I will be doing mobile mutli-track recording. This being the case, I need a higher end sequencer.
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- KVRist
- 301 posts since 5 Jun, 2004
go for logic 7. The learning curve is not as steep as they make it out to be, but after that you will almost NEVER need a manual again. As for PDC, it is implemented on inserts but not busses or sends. There are workarounds but not as efficient as it having it anyway. Still the most intuitive and complete, powerful and music minded host out there. Just wished they hadn't stopped pc development
Last edited by popsych on Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- u-he
- 30213 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
The pdc in Logic 7 works perfectly on inserts.
It just doesn't work on master and busses, mainly because in Logic you can configure busses and stuff in a circular manner. For instance, you can put a delay on bus 1, route that to bus 2 where you might have a filter and then route bus 2 back to bus 1 and the output to master. As this is a non-linear approach, it is impossible to calculate the pdc.
PDC is mainly useful for external plugins, i.e. UAD or PowerCore and for look-ahead limiters/compressors. Latter are typically inserted on Master during final mix, so not really a problem.
So, as long as you do not insert external plugins on busses, all should be fine. If you have and UAD, they have a workaround in that you can insert a special plugin on the busses that don't have any UAD plugin. This special plugin adds the correct latency introduced on the other busses, so that they arrive in sync at the Master.
I do own the UAD and Logic 7 and I can't say that I miss PDC at all... the other stuff (UltraBeat, Sculpture, EVD-6, EXS, EVP, ChannelEQ etc.) is just too intrigueing to waste any thought on PDC for busses
However, you shouldn't go below 1.2 GHz to really have fun using it. But that also accounts for any other MacOS X audio software. I use it on a first generation 1.8 GHz G5 single processor, and it's pretty fluid!
Cheers,
Urs
It just doesn't work on master and busses, mainly because in Logic you can configure busses and stuff in a circular manner. For instance, you can put a delay on bus 1, route that to bus 2 where you might have a filter and then route bus 2 back to bus 1 and the output to master. As this is a non-linear approach, it is impossible to calculate the pdc.
PDC is mainly useful for external plugins, i.e. UAD or PowerCore and for look-ahead limiters/compressors. Latter are typically inserted on Master during final mix, so not really a problem.
So, as long as you do not insert external plugins on busses, all should be fine. If you have and UAD, they have a workaround in that you can insert a special plugin on the busses that don't have any UAD plugin. This special plugin adds the correct latency introduced on the other busses, so that they arrive in sync at the Master.
I do own the UAD and Logic 7 and I can't say that I miss PDC at all... the other stuff (UltraBeat, Sculpture, EVD-6, EXS, EVP, ChannelEQ etc.) is just too intrigueing to waste any thought on PDC for busses
However, you shouldn't go below 1.2 GHz to really have fun using it. But that also accounts for any other MacOS X audio software. I use it on a first generation 1.8 GHz G5 single processor, and it's pretty fluid!
Cheers,
Urs-
- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Obviously there are a lot of professionals, (and studios) that use it... so it must be quite capable, despite that one limitation? There is PDC... just not full PDC! Surely, Logic is not crippled by that one omission... it's just the only one everybody can complain about... Oh, and Mac only! Do you have a UAD-1?
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 30 May, 2003
Will a powerbook be powerful enough to run logic 7 then? What about for the other sequencers?
UAD-1? Isn't that PCI based? I'm talking about for a powerbook.
Nobody seems to be commenting on DP, how does it measure up?
UAD-1? Isn't that PCI based? I'm talking about for a powerbook.
Nobody seems to be commenting on DP, how does it measure up?
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- u-he
- 30213 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
How fast is your powerbook?
Also, has your Powerbook a 2nd monitor out? (That's yes if it's younger than 3 years I suppose) - All sequencers except for Live (and DP4.5 maybe) are very happy with more screen estate...
For DP I'd recommend visiting osxaudio.com - there are quite a lot of DP users around there!
Cheers,
Urs
Also, has your Powerbook a 2nd monitor out? (That's yes if it's younger than 3 years I suppose) - All sequencers except for Live (and DP4.5 maybe) are very happy with more screen estate...
For DP I'd recommend visiting osxaudio.com - there are quite a lot of DP users around there!
Cheers,
Urs-
- KVRAF
- 2874 posts since 22 Oct, 2002 from "somewhere between digital and analog"
Yep, UAD-1 is PCI only, but the same applies to Powercore, which is firewire too... But I'd think you're main issue would be cpu strength not PDC. DP is even slower on mid level Macs than Logic... And then there is the matter of OSX updates! Apple would be more likely to have Logic running properly with the latest system updates than MOTU... You'd have to ask DP users what their experience has been though...
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 5 posts since 30 May, 2003
Well it is going to be a 15" powerbook G4 1.33Ghz, 2GB ram, 80GB 5400rpm HD. I'm debating on the audio interface (firewire audiophile, mbox, or splurge for the tascam FW1884).
I'm planning on using it for Finalscratch (waiting eagerly for FS2, going to [url=http:/sf.remixhotel.com]Remix hotel[/url] in a few hours to check it out.
I'd also like the possiblility to do live performances with it using ableton live.
Finally I'd like the ability to have a portable production station. This last part is two fold. I'd like to be able to produce dance music using mainly plugins but also a few external midi devices. Secondly, I'd like to be able to multitrack record bands and take the session home and master and mix down (hence the FW1884).
If there were a powerbook G5 I'd get it but no such luck.
I'm planning on using it for Finalscratch (waiting eagerly for FS2, going to [url=http:/sf.remixhotel.com]Remix hotel[/url] in a few hours to check it out.
I'd also like the possiblility to do live performances with it using ableton live.
Finally I'd like the ability to have a portable production station. This last part is two fold. I'd like to be able to produce dance music using mainly plugins but also a few external midi devices. Secondly, I'd like to be able to multitrack record bands and take the session home and master and mix down (hence the FW1884).
If there were a powerbook G5 I'd get it but no such luck.