Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[mitchiemasha]

Probably a Cubase or Automap related issue, not directly Avenger.

Using Novation Automap, Automap creates a new VST2 instance to load, it's displayed the same as the VST name plus automap in brackets, 2 instances will show in Cubase. For VST3, Cubase will automatically use the generated (automap) version, displaying only 1 instance of the VST. When opening a VST, the control surface focus is automatically shifted to the VST. In the Automap application we can select which of our installed VST use this feature and, when one of these VST is loaded in Cubase, the VST will show as a selectable option in the last tab of the APP, enabling editing of the mapping.

Problem
Cubase and Automap isn't shifting focus to Avenger with VST3. After a few hours of staring blankly at the screen, I discovered...

• Avenger will show in the Automap APP but not as a selectable option in the last tab of the APP when Avenger is loaded in cubase.

• In Cubase plug in manager, the VST3 versions of all the other VST that work display a ! (!VST NAME) in the info part of plugin manager. This is Cubase automatically using the automap version for VST3. Avenger still has it's normal name

• In the system plug in folders (follow the routing in the Automap APP), Automap is creating a new (! automap) version for Avenger, I tested this by deleting the old one and initiating the first part of automap setup to rescan installed plugins. I believed an update may have glitch the link to an older automap file, this still didn't work

Revelation
Automap is generating the automap file for Avenger but Cubase is failing to see it.

Simple Solution that surprisingly worked
I moved both the original VST3 file for Avenger and the generated (!automap) VST3 file into their own folder in the folder they were already in. Separating it from the other VST3 files in the folder. No idea why this actually worked.

Conclusion
This took many hours and I'm still not decided if I'm sticking with Automap. My typing keyboard does not fit well with the Novation Impulse as my master. Prior, I was using the Virus TI (nice open space to the right for typing), which has a remote mode but Cubase Remote Editor doesn't seem to do any of it's purpose, getting it to respond to an actual hardware remote seems impossible... more like a virtual surface to control another virtual surface, to which the video demo shows off perfectly with no hardware insight, pointless!!!

And, my biggest gripe. Cubase doesn't write automation when using the midi learn from within a synth. Move the knob on the screen via the mouse, data wrote, move the same knob on the screen via midi learn... No write, which is unfortunately the expected behaviour! Nightmare!!!

It seems my quest for the perfect controls has only just begun.

[clipnotic]

I'm not sure about the Trance Two expansion but most of the presets do use the MINI-CHAIN effect and don't need the kick for triggering any pumping. If not, just slam the MINI-CHAIN effect on your FX channels including the MASTER FX and adjust to your taste.

The presets in the Trance Two expansion are using that MINI-CHAIN tool, too. But if you disable them on every FX channel, the problem is the same. And the drum samples were routed to the Master FX Output, there is a own button for this in the drums window!

I don't checked all expansion presets, yet. But yes, there are other presets without the "MB Limiter" on the Master FX channel. And they have activated MINI-CHAIN tools, too. But the beats are still working fine without the kick, so it seems to depend of the routing to the "MB Limiter".

[kenny saunders]

Probably a Cubase or Automap related issue, not directly Avenger.

....

It seems my quest for the perfect controls has only just begun.

Huh, I do have an impulse 61 but pretty sure I uninstalled the automap stuff, maybe there's some hangover. thanks for the info I'll have a look into it, so they avenger will be in \prog files\common... directory?

In terms of controls i have the Steinberg CC21 and the Nektar P1 which I can say cover all bases for what I assume most people would ever need. The P1 has a more advanced version of the automap thing.

[kenny saunders]

...

But that's not possible with that Avenger presets, because it has no multi outs. And using an instance for every single sound doesn't work also, because every sound needs the kick!

...

Maybe I misapprehended what you said but Avenger does have multiple outs. You have to enable them in your daw

[clipnotic]

...

But that's not possible with that Avenger presets, because it has no multi outs. And using an instance for every single sound doesn't work also, because every sound needs the kick!

...

Maybe I misapprehended what you said but Avenger does have multiple outs. You have to enable them in your daw

Well, my english is shit ...

The problem is, that the effect in this presets is activated in the master fx section! So, if you route all drum sounds to an own mixer channel, you still have the same result, as using them on individual instances, if the kick is muted, all other sounds changes ...

Okay you could bounce them, lol

[Bansaw]

Here I demo my 16-bar riser. You can hear it in action. I'll add to this in the weeks to come. Download this basic riser and add your creativity to it as well! I might do an 8-bar version of this.

[MissOptimyst]

Has anyone tried Avenger with the new Logic Pro X update yet?

[outerspacecat]

Has anyone tried Avenger with the new Logic Pro X update yet?

Yes, seems to work. But there still isn't a correct PDC for automation in Logic Pro X 10.5. So you won't get a tight automation if you use Avenger with higher latency settings (e.g. when using SQ presets or drums). A single parameter automation will be out of time then (usually twice the amount of latency introduced through your plug-in).

[MissOptimyst]

Has anyone tried Avenger with the new Logic Pro X update yet?

Yes, seems to work. But there still isn't a correct PDC for automation in Logic Pro X 10.5. So you won't get a tight automation if you use Avenger with higher latency settings (e.g. when using SQ presets or drums). A single parameter automation will be out of time then (usually twice the amount of latency introduced through your plug-in).

Hm I see. I’ve seen this issue talked about before on here with other DAWs. Did this issue just come up in 10.5? I’ve never noticed any latency issues previously in Logic with Avenger.

[msvs]

1.5.8 will contain a fix for the "dynamic" latency compensation. All other modes should already work as expected

[outerspacecat]

Has anyone tried Avenger with the new Logic Pro X update yet?

Yes, seems to work. But there still isn't a correct PDC for automation in Logic Pro X 10.5. So you won't get a tight automation if you use Avenger with higher latency settings (e.g. when using SQ presets or drums). A single parameter automation will be out of time then (usually twice the amount of latency introduced through your plug-in).

Hm I see. I’ve seen this issue talked about before on here with other DAWs. Did this issue just come up in 10.5? I’ve never noticed any latency issues previously in Logic with Avenger.

This only affects you if you set your global latency in Avenger higher than 0 ms and if you are automate parameters. Other than that Avenger does a very fine and stable job in Logic Pro X. This is not Vengeance's fault by the way, this purely relies on Logic's outdated PDC.

[MissOptimyst]

Has anyone tried Avenger with the new Logic Pro X update yet?

Yes, seems to work. But there still isn't a correct PDC for automation in Logic Pro X 10.5. So you won't get a tight automation if you use Avenger with higher latency settings (e.g. when using SQ presets or drums). A single parameter automation will be out of time then (usually twice the amount of latency introduced through your plug-in).

Hm I see. I’ve seen this issue talked about before on here with other DAWs. Did this issue just come up in 10.5? I’ve never noticed any latency issues previously in Logic with Avenger.

This only affects you if you set your global latency in Avenger higher than 0 ms and if you are automate parameters. Other than that Avenger does a very fine and stable job in Logic Pro X.

Did not know this. I am not utilizing these features currently so I guess I haven’t noticed. As long as things load how they do in previous version of Logic Pro X then I am good to go!

I’ll look out for the Avenger 1.5.8 update as well when it comes out! Glad to hear this is fixed in that version.

[mitchiemasha]

I uninstalled the automap stuff, maybe there's some hangover.

If you're not using Novation Automap, you shouldn't have an issue. My issue was purely that Avenger was no longer getting focus for Automap when selected in my DAW.

I'm really struggling with what to go with. Go back to the Virus and program it's remote mode with Cubase Generic Remote, which will take a lot of mapping, I'd need to make different templates in the remote for each VST and the Cubase mapping too. Accept the ugly screen on the Impulse and my space issue for typing keyboard. Or, buy something new. I've been looking at the Nektars, I'd still have a typing issue... I do like the look of the Arturia keylab 88 Mk1. This would eat up the desk but plenty of typing keyboard space. It's a Nightmare!

Edit: And, my long post was a separate comment, that wasn't meant to be related to the first note of first load for each instance of Avenger Asio Spike, issue.

[jbraner]

my space issue for typing keyboard.

I haven't looked back through the posts - but are you saying you have a desk space issue with a MIDI controller and a computer keyboard? (or something else?)
Maybe you could try building some kind of "tiers" with plastic risers, or shelves or wood or something else?
I have all sorts of things like this in my tiny space
Please ignore if this is way off base...

[mitchiemasha]

my space issue for typing keyboard.

I have all sorts of things like this in my tiny space

The situation!!!



How it was but selling the Virus as I need good easy VST mapping. Cubase doesn't write MIDI automation live if using the MIDI learn within the VST, which is a huge shame. Setting up multiple templates with the Virus and Cubase, for each VST, would take forever.



What seemed like the best choice controller at the time. Much easier integration thanks to AUTOMAP. Set up Avenger to the 8 knobs (which is a lot less than Virus in remote mode but we get pages). Cubase will write MIDI automation for Avenger live with AUTOMAP, after fixing the little glitch mentioned here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=467127&p=7762338#p7762338

BUT, it totally ruined typing placement. And, this is the worst contrast viewing angle in history, with no hidden menu adjustment. If the keyboard is the wrong way round, from the back, you get a good contrast... I think someone messed up there. Great if you want the crowd to read it at a performance, if they can read upside down that is.




I'd much prefer a smaller simpler screen done right rather than this. When the text scrolls displaying the parameter you have control of (which is a good idea) you can't read it at all.

Another issue, scrolling through the pages for the 8 knobs is a shift function with the buttons next to the encoders. This should of been the Primary function, not the secondary shift function. The primary function is rarely changed, if at all. Doing it the other way would of been a much quicker intuitive process. Set your filters page 1, envelopes page 2, so on, effects page 5 etc etc. 1 simple press to scroll through, up or down, not a shift press.

The rooms quite big, here's an older picture before the panels went up.



It's currently a mess so no new pictures... and, the mixing desk went last year along with all the 90's 00's Hardware Rack Synths that were above and below it. 2 legendary Ikea Jerker desks with extra home made shelves. All ITB now, after building a PC that can handle many Avengers.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but it's still kind of Avenger related