KVR Audio

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Sat May 16, 2020 5:44 pm

In German "to pop" is a synonym making love the physical way.
Just sayin'...

To pop is life!

e-crooner · Post by **e-crooner** » Sat May 16, 2020 6:12 pm

BONES wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:33 am Except that's not how it works, is it? Why not? I'm glad you asked. When you use and envelope to control the filter cutoff, the cutoff frequency starts at zero, then rises to the max value of the ENV MOD control, then falls away to the sustain level. In the case of a bassline, you want the envelope to be fairly snappy so it will rise very quickly and fall away to zero (or a very low value) in something like half-a-second. So at the start and end of the envelope cycle, the resonance should be boosting the very lowest frequencies coming from the oscillators. Therefore, in a well engineered filter design, increasing the resonance in this state should boost the bass frequencies before and after the squelchy bit. Of course, it will happen quickly enough that you don't really perceive each part of the cycle but the bass should absolutely appear to get louder as the resonance increases and in a well designed filter that is exactly what will happen.

A good example is the wonderful Korg MS20. If you've got the Legacy Collection you can test it out for yourself. Start with the Init patch (Version 2), set the LP cutoff to 2, turn the MG modulation all the way up to 10, turn the MG shape fully to the left (saw) and set the frequency to 0.5. Hold down a bass note and start to turn up the resonance. You can almost immediately hear the whole sound start to get louder and by the time you get to a value of 5 you can hear that fat, squelchy sound in full. Keep turning and it gets all squealy in the high end but you can still hear it boosting the bottom end as the filter closes again.

Now repeat the same exercise in The Legend, but keep your modulation levels to about half (the MS20's mod range is pretty small without patching), turn Osc 1's pitch to 8' and turn the Init patch's volume down to 1.7 to match out MS 20's inital output. Slowly turn up the resonance and see how much less dynamic the sound is.

If nothing else, this should show you that the MM is all about the oscillators and the MS20 is all about the filter. You put up with the ladder filter because of the oscillators, it's not a filter you'd actually want to use if you had a choice.

No, I don't have access to those two synths, the Legend demo expired a long time ago and I won't waste my time with Korg anymore.

Anyway, judging from your description that what might make the difference with the Korg is that it might have a wider Q area for the resonance. I know, Q is typically used for equalizers, but in a way a filter is also an equalizer. (Oddly, I have never seen a filter, where one could not only set the resonance, but also the q value for the resonance.)

No, the cutoff frequency does not necessarily start at zero when using a filter envelope. It depends on the cutoff setting, which becomes an offset in this case.

"that fat, squelchy sound", well, I have heard it and frankly, I would not know what to do with it, it does not sound musical to me. According to Wiki, the Korg filters had hiss, which turned into "screaming" at high resonance settings, similar to distortion. Probably not intended by Korg, either.

I don't like normal resonance, either, that irritating whistle sound. I never set it beyond 3/4 on my synth because it sounds unpleasant to me. Usually, I remain within the first 25% or so, only to give the sound a slightly different character, the nasal touch.

I think your negative view of the Minimoog is unjustified. There is a reason why it has been used on zillions on records. It does have a bottom, else it would not have been used for so many bass lines, with and without resonance. It's not that someone or a studio that can afford a Minimoog can't afford an MS20. Yet, the Minimoog has been more popular.

e-crooner · Post by **e-crooner** » Sat May 16, 2020 6:16 pm

Calenberger wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 5:23 pm First rumours are coming up that there will be a complete new distribution channel for this synth gem:
A7FD959F-3CE6-433D-814B-3EAB360B7823.jpeg

He might call the synth The Beaver, and nobody but Germans would get it

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat May 16, 2020 6:42 pm

IMHO the name that was selected for the plugin is quite OBvious...

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm

AnX wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 6:56 pm
vurt wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 5:33 pm star wars is not pop culture its life
its def a culture, more the kind you would find in a petri dish

/uses the force to choke dave!!!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:15 pm

in my best farmer accent

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:19 pm

Ingonator wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 6:42 pm IMHO the name that was selected for the plugin is quite OBvious...

Hoefully the name of the plugin will never fall into OBlivion...

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:20 pm

e-crooner wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 6:12 pmI know, Q is typically used for equalizers, but in a way a filter is also an equalizer. (Oddly, I have never seen a filter, where one could not only set the resonance, but also the q value for the resonance.)

Resonance and Q are the same thing, just inverted.

rasmusklump · Post by **rasmusklump** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:22 pm

Cinebient wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 8:01 pm When i read this thread my interest in the synth goes to zero, thank you guys
Worst beta team ever

Exactly my thoughts.
I wouldn't buy this even for 10,00 because of Bones, Wagtunes and AnX

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:23 pm

OBE = Out of Body Experience
would be suitable as well.

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:24 pm

rasmusklump wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 7:22 pm
Cinebient wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 8:01 pm When i read this thread my interest in the synth goes to zero, thank you guys
Worst beta team ever
Exactly my thoughts.
I wouldn't buy this even for 10,00 because of Bones, Wagtunes and AnX

C'mon, you'll miss the 81st soundset provided by one of them!

e-crooner · Post by **e-crooner** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:28 pm

EvilDragon wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 7:20 pm
e-crooner wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 6:12 pmI know, Q is typically used for equalizers, but in a way a filter is also an equalizer. (Oddly, I have never seen a filter, where one could not only set the resonance, but also the q value for the resonance.)
Resonance and Q are the same thing, just inverted.

Sounds odd.
I thought resonance is the excess gain level at the cutoff frequency.
Q would be the width of the frequency range below/above the cutoff frequency, i.e. how steep the increase or decrease to or from the resonance peak, the slope of the resonance bump, so to speak.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat May 16, 2020 8:00 pm

See Vadim's posts here:

https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... ce.234219/

The critical part is where resonance = 1/Q for a 2-pole filter.

e-crooner · Post by **e-crooner** » Sat May 16, 2020 8:06 pm

I don't really understand that.
If I were to develop a filter, I could pick different q ranges for the same resonance peak.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat May 16, 2020 8:17 pm

I never understand a word when the DSP gurus begin sharing their magic...

Didn't understand a word of his "The art of VA filter design" paper either.

Upcoming Synapse OB-Xa: Obsession