Best hands-on poly

[DrGonzo]

I did that with the Deepmind 12 - and while I really really like the sound of it, the slow UI and endless menus just takes out all the fun out of working with hardware. If I want menus I get that on the computer.

How true.
Seems they were obsessed by faders everywhere.
If choice were knobs insteads they could have made much more on panel directly available. You could get 2-3 knobs in the same space as one fader.

That's a quite good observation to be honest. I never thought about that regarding the faders. I guess they took their inspiration from the Roland Junos - and forgot how impractical it would become with a more complex synthesizer. I really don't want to hate on Behringers synths and I think the Deepmind sounds absolutely great. But often there are some really weird design choices.

Anyway - back to the topic.

Prologue is well equipped on things on panel - but what is through menus is real clever approach that quickly is in your backbone. The 8 buttons get you directly into a category menu - then pressing again swap page in that menu.

The only "big" modern Korg I have ever owned was the KingKorg and I remember it being quite easy to operate despite not having too many controls. Korg is usually not bad with their interfaces so I take your comment to heart

There is more menu stuff in Wavestate, but necessarily so - since options what you can do is vast in comparison to anything else synth. But real clever in how you have like 5 levels of presets you can reuse.

The Wavestate intrigues me a lot, but there are a whole bunch of things that put me off buying one. To me the Wavestate feels like a softsynth in a hardware shell - and I mean that in the most positive aspect possible. My issue with it is that it screams after a software editor and no matter how clever Korg made the UI, creating a sound in the Wavestate will never be as straightforward as a one-knob-per-function analog poly. Yeah, from a sound designing perspective, my heart is deeply intrigued by the Wavestate - but I'm not touching it until Korg either releases a full documentation on their newly invented communication specs or they release their own editor.

In either case - a big thanks for your suggestions. Good thinking.

/C

[chk071]

Different topic, but... seriously, I don't know any soft synth which sounds as organic (say, simple sounds which don't sound synthetic, but rather have small variations in pitch, in saturation, maybe even in volume which you'd all have to program in a digital synth), and has the beef of the things I hear in this video:



You know, some of the emulations get reasonably close these days, and, some are every quite fantastic, and hard to distinguish, but, especially when I take a look at the big "flagship" type VA's, there's still something missing. Whether or not you're looking for that "something" is of course the question.

[himalaya]

but rather have small variations in pitch, in saturation, maybe even in volume which you'd all have to program in a digital synth), and has the beef of the things I hear in this video:

This variation you speak of, is over stated. Modern analogue poly-synths do not have a lot of this pitch-saturation-volume randomness, not as much as you'd think, and certainly not by default. It could be programmed in, I guess.
A modern, well maintained poly-synth shouldn't have such fluctuations. The pitch will vary, to some extent, but even so, modern analogue VCO poly-synths are more stable and do not fluctuate in pitch as much as the vintage VCO-poly-synths.

What I would say is the key difference is the actual tone of the oscillators, and the whole signal path that follows. To give you an example, my Roland MKS-70 (Super Jupiter JX) has such amazingly lush sounding oscillators that it is not possible to recreate that sound by simply using bare naked oscillator waveforms in a soft synth. I'd need to shape the sound with EQ to get the same tone. Then, it's the way the oscillators combine when detuned. There is something really nice going on, something that again, can not be easily re-created in a soft synth. Simply detuning two oscillators on both the MKS-70, and a soft synth of your choice, gives different results. And this is for a DCO based poly-synth, which is supposedly more 'cold', or maybe less 'organic' sounding than a VCO based poly-synth. At least that what the 'experts' say. Still, it's so much more organic by default, than any soft synth. But it does not fluctuate, it does not randomly throw any saturation, pitch or volume variances into the sound.

If we were talking about something like the Memorymoog, or Oberheim 8-voice, then all bets are off. These can be very unstable, in the ugly sense of the word, or random, in a very beautiful way. The 8-voice will be the most organic, random-sounding poly-synth there is, all because it's 8 connected synth modules that need to be programmed individually, and you will never get each synth to sound the same.

Now, if i were to talk about a vintage mono like my Korg mini700....this thing is so unstable that it throws random filter and pitch values just by looking at it. And this is only for a single VCO mono synth.

[DrGonzo]

my Roland MKS-70 (Super Jupiter JX) has such amazingly lush sounding oscillators that it is not possible to recreate that sound by simply using bare naked oscillator waveforms in a soft synth. I'd need to shape the sound with EQ to get the same tone.

I'm glad you brought this up. When trying to replicate the sound of hardware in Omnisphere, no matter what filters (even with full open settings) I'm using I almost always have to put an EQ at the end of the chain even to get into the same ball-park. Not meaning to talk bad about software, a good sound is a good sound no matter where it comes from. But it is an interesting observation that I'm fully on board with.

I have almost settled my mind on the OB6. It's not cheap. But I have a bunch of gear that I bought the last couple of years that I need to get rid of anyway.

Just to connect back to the Wavestate. Some six months ago I bought the Roland MC707 and I had this extremely problematic relationship with it. On one hand you have an extremely competent sound engine and on the other, a UI that just make you flip page after page to get to one specific parameter. I sold it and swore I will not get a rompler unless it has a good editor. I admire Korg as a company and the Wavestate ticks every box that inspires me. But I won't touch it until Korg comes out with an editor. Working something as complex as the Wavestate using a couple of buttons would be like painting your flat through the letterbox. Doable. But not fun.

/C

[egbert101]

If you're going for eighties sounds, then KingKorg (you already had one but it still has the Oberheim-8 filter simulation) or System 8 are good choices for both ease of use, and range of sounds with eight notes of polyphony. If you absolutely must have analog, then the original Minilogue (4-voice) is pretty easy to use. There is the Poly D if you can make do with paraphony or there is the upcoming Monopoly if you can wait. The Prologue or Minilogue XD also seem attractive for long term, given the new digital oscillators and effects. Also consider the Roland JD-Xi or JD-Xa hybrids, which don't seem that difficult to use.

But an OB-6 for its price, and limitations, seems hard to justify. Given that it probably doesn't sound as good as the original Oberheims, and cheaper alternatives with greater polyphony (8) might arrive down the line in a year or two (Behringer) then it's really hard to justify it, other than bragging rights as to current best sounding poly, if only marginal at best.

Other obvious considerations: Novation Peak, Prophet 12 Module.

[Paulmapp8306]

Peak is REALLY good - I have a Virus Ti2 as well, and the Peak does its own thing. Its definitely more a traditional analogue poly even if the waveforms are digital. They complement each other really well actually.

OB6...... just the best core sound of any analogue poly available right now period. Not as much modulation options as others, but the core sound is just top notch - unless you can afford a Moog one.....

P6 has more modulation options than OB 6 though - and REv 2 has even more. I did slightly prefer the sound of Peak over the Rev 2 though.

Both Hydrasynth and Argon 8 (very nearly had one of those) are great at what they do - but there not polys, even if they can kind of sound that way. Its not what they do best and what they do do isnt as good as other options out there.

KingKorg is actually a really nice sounding VA - but the keybed is truly horrendous and put me off completely.

For a VA thats good, with a decent keybed at the more low cost end - the Studiologic Sledge is a decent shout.

[pdxindy]

I have almost settled my mind on the OB6. It's not cheap. But I have a bunch of gear that I bought the last couple of years that I need to get rid of anyway.

You cannot go wrong with the OB-6

The Poly Synth I'm keen to get my hands on is the UDO Super 6. I've had it on pre-order since it first came to light... now delayed due to the pandemic. Should have it in the next couple months. That's the one that the sound speaks to me the most.

I have a BC Xerxes. It's an 8 voice analog synth loosely modeled after the Synthex. Makes some beautiful tones. Haven't dug into it much yet as I need to rearrange my studio... so cannot give a deeper review of it.

[DrGonzo]

If you're going for eighties sounds, then KingKorg (you already had one but it still has the Oberheim-8 filter simulation) or System 8 are good choices for both ease of use, and range of sounds with eight notes of polyphony.

Analog is actually not important at all - the only thing that it has to be extremely intuitive to use. I heard lots of good things about the System 8. I owned a System 1 once and it was... well... ok. The analog emulations were the best part of it. Owned a KingKorg as well. Not for me.
[/quote]

But an OB-6 for its price, and limitations, seems hard to justify. Given that it probably doesn't sound as good as the original Oberheims, and cheaper alternatives with greater polyphony (8) might arrive down the line in a year or two (Behringer) then it's really hard to justify it, other than bragging rights as to current best sounding poly, if only marginal at best.

Other obvious considerations: Novation Peak, Prophet 12 Module.

Behringers stuff is excellent and when they will do real polys that will probably send shockwaves through the whole industry. Again. But when and if that might happen... who knows. 2-3 years before they deliver?

Behringer Poly D? Hm... didn't think about that one. Thanks!!

/C

[DrGonzo]

I have almost settled my mind on the OB6. It's not cheap. But I have a bunch of gear that I bought the last couple of years that I need to get rid of anyway.

You cannot go wrong with the OB-6

The Poly Synth I'm keen to get my hands on is the UDO Super 6. I've had it on pre-order since it first came to light... now delayed due to the pandemic. Should have it in the next couple months. That's the one that the sound speaks to me the most.

I have a BC Xerxes. It's an 8 voice analog synth loosely modeled after the Synthex. Makes some beautiful tones. Haven't dug into it much yet as I need to rearrange my studio... so cannot give a deeper review of it.

UDO Super 6 - damn it. How could I have forgotten that one? Thanks for bringing it up!

Xerxes? Wow. Now that's a damn impressive synth!

/C

[egbert101]

Here is the Peak doing vintage analog stuff. It's pretty damn impressive, but of course those digital filters are not VCOs. It doesn't matter to me, I might pull the trigger on it eventually.

[DrGonzo]

^^^

Wow. I agree. Pretty impressive actually. First demo of the Peak that grabbed my interest.

[Paulmapp8306]

They are very nice indeed. Thing about all synths - dont go by demos alone.

95% of demos with Ti2 are trance/ambient/club styles (obviously where Virus made its name) but it actually makes really nice traditional 70/80 style poly noises as well. Different to peak - but just as nice.

[JCJR]

That posted peak video sounded good otoh purt wet drowned in fx.

That earlier posted ob vid, I guess a lot of patches were detuned on purpose, but rather than fat, to me it sounded like they sound right before you have to push the autotune button on the old prophets, mem moogs and obs. Actually sounds messed up enough that on an old mem moog or prophet you would be crossing your fingers it is at least close enough calibrated to succeed autotune without having to take it apart and recalibrate the trimmers. But I assume that vid was just sick tuned on purpose and maybe some listeners might prefer it that far out of kilter.

My eyes been getting bad that wavestate screen is kinda small maybe I would have trouble even with a magnifying glass. I mean a lot of em have tiny screens but wavestate usage seems.to depend a lot on the screen.

Except for going blind I don't care that much about hands on convenience. Last week was wondering whether there was anything worth spending the stimulus check on and I'm just way jaded. Went thru propaganda vids for every poly on sweetwater's synth list and the only two sounded clear clean sweet to me were hydra and kyra, and I doubt I would even play either one of those much if I got one.

I mean the prophet sound ok but I was tired of that kind of sound in the early 1980's. Spend the big bucks in 2020 for that? Well I spose so if a fella isn't tired of it.

Had originally entertained impulse buy idea of a schecter ultra 3 geetar but they raised the price from $800 last year to $950 this year. $800 was already crazy money for a non-guitarist to play for a few hours per year, and $950 is even more worser of course.

[MFXxx]

Hi all. Can I drop in here for some advice on the following thread as a lot of peeps here have a lot of good opinions that may cross over to what Im looking for.
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=545767&p=7769187#p7769187
Thanks
M

[lfm]

That posted peak video sounded good otoh purt wet drowned in fx.

My eyes been getting bad that wavestate screen is kinda small maybe I would have trouble even with a magnifying glass. I mean a lot of em have tiny screens but wavestate usage seems.to depend a lot on the screen.

To go all prejudiced - I would say that synths that fokus sooo much on effects does not have that interesting sound going without it. Everything sounds good drowned in fx, just about.

Take the raw Prophet, Moog or Prologue - and it's incredible without anything else. I even like Nordlead2X which does not have onboard effects. So developers focus on really good basic sound as it seems.

Readability of Wavestate display is very good IMO and is 4 times in size as Prologue.
Some things though like changing pages involves a shift button(but can be made sticky) and other command shift pages like on modulations with Enter+page buttons to browse which modulations are there. Same arrow buttons work as next/previous field on display. So triple function on those. Not so fond of that TBH, not that stuff that you do real often. But if filter envelope is active and you touch attack knob - display is right where you want it.

And some gear like my Kawai piano has 4 knobs around display - and 4 values to tweak on each page. So less moving between fields. These 4 knobs can even be assigned freely what you want to see in a preset you make etc. Not sure how many synths have done this, but think it's really cool idea that let you reach values directly on screen.

But everything you touch on Wavestate on panel, just about, display the right pages on display(buttons and knobs). Hold Enter and touch anything also show right display and field but with parameter untouched to see what is stored with preset. Rather cool, I think. Before tweaking what you want to know. I would wish for as a firmware update like Prologue did - display original value beside what you are touching so you at any time an trim back to what preset were(as last saved).

Once you get the feel on which level you are working in Wavestate - there is preset for that level to save and restore as you need later.

You don't need to work with sequences on every layer. Lets say you want a grand piano and just playable as it is then planned with some else in another layer - load a single multisample in that layer. Then envelopes and filter on panel work on that, but just wanting as is you are done with that layer.

Much bigger screens like DeepMind with backlit are much worse IMO. And if pixel resolution does not increase it become like 80's pc screens more or less - letters and numbers very pixelated. And display was not so sharp, backlit tend to do that - and little fussy like a lens out of focus a bit.

The technology on displays has developed a lot in recent years, probably due to phones today.