Hello
Not trying to beat a dead horse here. If you don't have anything constructive or not interested in taking a look please move on.
I've been making music for a long time. I'm almost sure I have over 10,000 hours in FL Studio. I make music and work in audio professionally, mainly for TV commercials.
I find it very odd that I get significantly different, no really, almost like a different producer is working, when I mix in FL Studio compared to bitwig or ableton live. Fact. It's been stressing me out and on my mind for years and I don't want to move from FL because I love the workflow except for a few things they really need to work on, but for making music it's FL for me. For now.
Anyway decided to post this here instead of their forum. I'm not going to bring a case to the developers unless I'm sure I have something.
Please find a video attached here:
Description:
I did a simple late night test on my headphones to check my theory that FL on my PC is not behaving correctly. I will admit that it could be my workflow with FL or any other reason than the DAW having a 'sound' but still pretty odd every single other DAW I get better results in and just enjoy my VST effects and instruments better there.....
I'm getting nearly always bad results in a DAW that I have lots of thousands of hours in compared to DAWs that I have less than 50 hours in...
It seems to me that there's an issue with the sound reproduction inside FL and the more effects you add the more prominent it is. Again I might be wrong..
In my test I simply made the same drum loop and tried to match the true peak levels as much as I can in both FL Studio and ableton live. I'm no expert in metering so that's the best I can do now. They match.
I added the same preset of Satin (a tape emulation plugin) on the master and the same preset of Decapitator on the Drum channel in both DAWs. Parameters are exactly the same.
Before the effects are switched on, both DAWs match exactly the same true peak level, after the effects with the same parameters are added the levels in both DAWs don't match and I can hear a bit more clarity in ableton, a little more space, while in FL even with the effects bypassed on both it just seems a little off. Please hear and see for yourself and let me know what you think and/or if I'm doing something technically wrong in the test.
The decap effect is extreme to test it out.
Don't tell me about nulling please, I already tried that with unsuccessful results.
Thanks
Dany
FL Studio / Ableton Test (Help Request - For experienced users)
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- KVRAF
- 1524 posts since 6 Nov, 2012
Is decapitator compatible with FL? I can see they are supporting 7 softwares. https://support.soundtoys.com/article/4 ... patibility
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- KVRAF
- 5071 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
I might be wrong but my guess would be that the drums hit the Decapitator hotter in FLS than in Ableton... (but could be the other way round too 
)...
Instead of using Samplers and Drumracks you should place the samples themselves into the timeline and mix them properly (each on a seperate mixer track in FLS) to your liking with a SPAN on each channel in both DAWs that they really match each other... match them volume wise without the group fader (that they match at the input of the group channel) and then place the Decapitator onto the group track...
Delete the Satin for now and have a look if they match then better... if yes you can do the next test with Satin...
My guess at the very end would be that they perfectly match with the correct test...
I cannot imagine that either "sound engine" behaves different with the same VST... this would be a strong bug...
)...Instead of using Samplers and Drumracks you should place the samples themselves into the timeline and mix them properly (each on a seperate mixer track in FLS) to your liking with a SPAN on each channel in both DAWs that they really match each other... match them volume wise without the group fader (that they match at the input of the group channel) and then place the Decapitator onto the group track...
Delete the Satin for now and have a look if they match then better... if yes you can do the next test with Satin...
My guess at the very end would be that they perfectly match with the correct test...
I cannot imagine that either "sound engine" behaves different with the same VST... this would be a strong bug...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 50 posts since 5 Nov, 2018
Thanks guys
will retry the test with the mentioned suggestions today. I like Trancit's method could work.
Do you hear anything different quality wise? I seem to do.
I specifically chose decap because it obviously mangles the sound and would be easier to show any changes in quality. But i always face this...
Thank you
will retry the test with the mentioned suggestions today. I like Trancit's method could work.
Do you hear anything different quality wise? I seem to do.
I specifically chose decap because it obviously mangles the sound and would be easier to show any changes in quality. But i always face this...
Thank you
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- KVRAF
- 5071 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
I wouldn´t name it "quality"...Dan_CF wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 9:32 am ...Do you hear anything different quality wise? I seem to do...
If two sources hit a distortion with different levels (if this would be the case) the result will have a different "flavour"... that´s what I heard from the test you´ve done... but that´s all I can say for now...
First we have to make sure that both DAWs feed the distortion with the exact same material level and frequency wise...
Perhaps it´s the best way to make one drumloop with any of these 2 and use this as the source in both at the same volume...
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- KVRian
- 530 posts since 8 Apr, 2018
These ‘DAW wars’ pop up every now and again. I feel FL studio did a pretty good job addressing this in their online manual (covering everything from emotional bias to the meters in the daw)
https://www.image-line.com/support/flst ... _audio.htm
https://www.image-line.com/support/flst ... _audio.htm
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- KVRAF
- 5071 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
I don´t think we are talking about "DAW wars" in this case...
I think the main problem Dan´s got is that he is stuck (without noticing) with a certain workflow in FLS doing similar things over and over in the same manner...
Using a different DAW (where he has to start "fresh" and breaking the "hidden restrictions" he´s got automatically) gives him different sonical results and therefore the impression other DAWs would sound "better"...
I am very sure that using the same source material treated with the same plugins and settings at the 100% identical levels gives always the same sonical result in any DAW... everything else is user error or a bug...
I think the main problem Dan´s got is that he is stuck (without noticing) with a certain workflow in FLS doing similar things over and over in the same manner...
Using a different DAW (where he has to start "fresh" and breaking the "hidden restrictions" he´s got automatically) gives him different sonical results and therefore the impression other DAWs would sound "better"...
I am very sure that using the same source material treated with the same plugins and settings at the 100% identical levels gives always the same sonical result in any DAW... everything else is user error or a bug...
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- KVRian
- 530 posts since 8 Apr, 2018
Yes, I totally agree. I just called it "DAW wars" since the answer to his question would most likely be answered in the "DAW wars" section of the FL studio manual. They do a very good job of describing all the possibilities that might lead to a difference in perceived sonic differences between DAWs. I use both FL studio and Ableton and there is absolutely no difference if everything is equally matched on all levels (excluding plugin bugs).Trancit wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 11:40 pm I don´t think we are talking about "DAW wars" in this case...
I think the main problem Dan´s got is that he is stuck (without noticing) with a certain workflow in FLS doing similar things over and over in the same manner...
Using a different DAW (where he has to start "fresh" and breaking the "hidden restrictions" he´s got automatically) gives him different sonical results and therefore the impression other DAWs would sound "better"...
I am very sure that using the same source material treated with the same plugins and settings at the 100% identical levels gives always the same sonical result in any DAW... everything else is user error or a bug...
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Winstontaneous Winstontaneous https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=98336
- KVRAF
- 2593 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Another Green World
Can you verify that both FL Studio and Ableton Live both have the same Pan Law settings?
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- KVRAF
- 4720 posts since 26 Nov, 2015 from Way Downunder
You shouldn't need to match peaks or anything by ear. Do it more scientifically. Create singular wav files (not peaking) and drop them into both DAW's timelines. Don't even assign them to channels if you don't need to. Stick Decapitator on the master bus of both DAWs - set a sound and save/load a custom preset so both DAWs are running Decap at exactly the same preset.
Export same format and compare.
And let us know what happens!
Export same format and compare.
And let us know what happens!
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- KVRAF
- 3086 posts since 4 May, 2012
Not dissimilar to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=545307
My answer is the same: Perform a null render. Last time I tested FL Studio for null render was (I think) version 12.0 - as a user had some questions and I was interested for myself - considering so many people talking about different DAWs having different sounds. Even though I was taught differently, I chose to prove it.
Plugins won't be behaving differently with different DAWs. You may well achieve different sonic results when applying automation curves but that has nothing to do with the plugin.
If any of your plugins are fully circuit modelled then you won't achieve a full null render.
Drum machines with envelopes engaged can change the sound. As Trancit suggested, a fair test will be performed using audio in the playlist rather than plugins running live - which may well have a degree of variation, either intentionally or due to bugs. Making sure your DAW reports rendering mode to plugins might limit error in plugins.
My answer is the same: Perform a null render. Last time I tested FL Studio for null render was (I think) version 12.0 - as a user had some questions and I was interested for myself - considering so many people talking about different DAWs having different sounds. Even though I was taught differently, I chose to prove it.
Plugins won't be behaving differently with different DAWs. You may well achieve different sonic results when applying automation curves but that has nothing to do with the plugin.
If any of your plugins are fully circuit modelled then you won't achieve a full null render.
Drum machines with envelopes engaged can change the sound. As Trancit suggested, a fair test will be performed using audio in the playlist rather than plugins running live - which may well have a degree of variation, either intentionally or due to bugs. Making sure your DAW reports rendering mode to plugins might limit error in plugins.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 50 posts since 5 Nov, 2018
Hi guys
Trancit was right, setting all the channels to the same level individually instead of on the master has proved to get the peaks to be exactly the same in both DAWs.
I don't know, maybe I should move from FL for just a little while. even if I'm most comfortable there, since I'm getting a better sound in another DAW. I believe it's my workflow. I work way too fast in FL. I admit this is 99% me and don't believe it's the DAW.
Thanks for your time.
Trancit was right, setting all the channels to the same level individually instead of on the master has proved to get the peaks to be exactly the same in both DAWs.
I don't know, maybe I should move from FL for just a little while. even if I'm most comfortable there, since I'm getting a better sound in another DAW. I believe it's my workflow. I work way too fast in FL. I admit this is 99% me and don't believe it's the DAW.
Thanks for your time.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 50 posts since 5 Nov, 2018
That's an interesting post btw. I feel the same about it as the user does. Really odd.Unaspected wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 9:46 pm Not dissimilar to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=545307
Going to take a break from FL, see over a stretch of time, a couple of months or so between FL and another DAW if there is always a good amount of different with my results.
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- KVRAF
- 2989 posts since 5 Nov, 2014
You are not alone, there's pro's I know that are having the same deal, even my partner noticed that stuff I do and mix in Bitwig sounds "better" and different, it took lot off convincing that it's just me having a blast in that DAW all along and not some magic Bitwig sound, I don't even use Bitwig stock stuff, but there's something about workflow that just let me use my ears and brain, get me straight to the point.