Arturia OB-Xa V

[goldenanalog]

This thing sounds great! I like the added functionality - the advanced video kinda took me into the weeds with what it can do - really neat! It was $50 since I have the V7 collection. I’m also looking forward to what the ever brilliant and good guy Richard comes out with - Arturia’s cost me 50 bucks; I think I can afford to buy the Synapse plug-in as well. Personally: I don’t want them to have exactly the same feature set (the probability is high that they won’t) so I can use them side by side for and interesting mix of core OBXA goodness and then some.

There will always be conflict between the Purists and the Progressives - in this case: I don’t have the actual hardware; so being a Purest about the OBXA is not doable. Besides, if I had one along with the time and the needed free capital: it would be interesting to explore custom mods to do with it - I learned a long time ago seeing pro owned equip that the guys that use the same gear over time will modify to have it do certain things that in stock form it won’t.

[Kian Russell]

IMO, Arturia won't have much to worry about either. I don't see this much as a either/or thing for most of the people out there. People who have bought Arturia so far will buy this, people who bought Synapse will buy the Synapse one. I don't see much of a competition, apart for the usual black/white crowd.

Agreed.
If they were priced equally I would have possibly gone with Synapse but that is not the case in my situation.
I have a feeling though this will hurt Synapse more than Arturia.

[pixel85]

I never used hardware so my opinion is based on what I hear in demos and it sounds... ok? Seriously nothing special. I don't know where is this 'classic synth' magic here because for me it does nothing that other plugins can't already do.
Change name and GUI to something ugly (oh well OB-Xa is ugly ) and this synth wouldn't be even mentioned on this forum.
Is it just me or people are getting hyped because it's 'classic synth emulation' with GUI looking like original hardware?

It's not just you. Quite frankly most of this stuff doesn't sound that great without effects (I can hear the gasps from the audience as I type this), which is why almost all of these emulations have additional features, most notably effects.

wagtunes mentioned DUNE3. DUNE3 is a monster. My opinion is it sounds far cooler than any Oberheim ever did.

Cqnt talk about Oberheim vs Dune but Dune itself has a lively full sound - something that I don't hear that at all in this OBXa emulation

[wagtunes]

2. Emulation Accuracy - Again, subjective.

how?

either its accurate, or it isnt

Because the human ear isn't perfect. So unless one knows the actual specs of the original and the specs of the emulation, given all they have is their ear to go on, their evaluation of the accuracy of the emulation is subjective.

And you know what? It doesn't even matter if the specs are identical (which it really can't be if you're comparing analog to what is now digital) if the person listening to the synth thinks that it doesn't sound like the original.

So yes, the interpretation of the accuracy, to the end user, is subjective.

And that's the only thing that ultimately matters.

[pixel85]

I never used hardware so my opinion is based on what I hear in demos and it sounds... ok? Seriously nothing special. I don't know where is this 'classic synth' magic here because for me it does nothing that other plugins can't already do.
.../...
Is it just me or people are getting hyped because it's 'classic synth emulation' with GUI looking like original hardware?

Well... I heard people I respect calling the harpsichord a "typewriter". And I keep hearing people saying that the pipe organ (IMO the most beautiful instrument on the planet) is just for the mass (or for gothic movies).

I accept you don't hear anything special in this synth. For example I don't hear anything special in a Minimoog. I find it a rather basic and primitive synth, yet there are tons of emulations, and people keep revering it

Typewriter
My thoughts are not on overall Oberheim sound but on nerd level of attributes/detail in the sound which every 'normal non-audio folk' would absolutely ignore eg. simple SAW preset in Massive X can sound full, rich, powerful, full of energy. I don't hear that in OBX-a V. It lacks in (micro)detail and I feel that I would need to use additional effects to beef it up while in synths like Repro, MX or Dune additional effects are for sound design purpose only because they sound rich without any addtional 'help'. In 2020 I expect synth plugins to have full sound and I suspect that original Oberheim has more juice than the emulation because a lot of analog synths have this full rich sound that I can't hear in the Arturia emulation.

I really would like to see an experiment where the most powerful synth emulations are released under strange name and ugly GUI to see if those synths would get the same amount of attention.

[Teksonik]

All I know is this. If Synapse doesn't come out with their synth soon and I'm on the final day of Arturia's sale, I will be picking up Arturia's version (it's good enough) and I won't be picking up Synapse Audio's version because I don't need 2 OB-Xa synths.

But aren't you in a position that many aren't where you could justify buying both in order to release sound sets in order to make a profit ?

Anyway saying you won't buy something before there is even a demo seems a bit premature.

All I know is when I bring up my..... or my Synapse Dune 3, they don't sound like Oberheims.

And thank god for that. DUNE 3 can sound so much better than anything I've heard from an Oberheim.

In my opinion Dune 3 is the most under rated VA on the market bar none.

[mholloway]

My thoughts are not on overall Oberheim sound but on nerd level of attributes/detail in the sound which every 'normal non-audio folk' would absolutely ignore eg. simple SAW preset in Massive X can sound full, rich, powerful, full of energy. I don't hear that in OBX-a V. It lacks in (micro)detail and I feel that I would need to use additional effects to beef it up while in synths like Repro, MX or Dune additional effects are for sound design purpose only because they sound rich without any addtional 'help'. In 2020 I expect synth plugins to have full sound and I suspect that original Oberheim has more juice than the emulation because a lot of analog synths have this full rich sound that I can't hear in the Arturia emulation.

I really would like to see an experiment where the most powerful synth emulations are released under strange name and ugly GUI to see if those synths would get the same amount of attention.

Or, consider that this 'full rich sound' is all in your head, and your deductions of its presence and/or lack thereof are almost entirely subjective and derived from other biases: the company, the GUI, the time period, hardware vs software, and so on. People think they hear all of these differences, and then repeatedly fail a basic A vs B blind test. A preset designer made a great video a few years back with Diva vs. an actual Oberheim. All the analog purists kept asserting the difference between the two, and then when it came to actually blindly spotting the difference, they couldn't do it. They chose Diva again and again.

So I wonder. You say a Massive X 'simple saw' can be full, rich, powerful, full of energy -- whereas a simple saw in OBXa V cannot. Are you sure? Can you post audio for us, one of each, so we can hear this clear difference? Would we instantly be able to tell how one 'simple saw' was full of energy and oh so rich, while the other was not?

I'm not saying there aren't differences; of course there are, huge ones. But in my experience the qualities of synths only emerge when you start programming them, forcing them to be dynamic during playback: sweeping the filter widely, stacking oscillators, adding cross-mod, and so on. That's when an emulation excels or crumbles at sounding 'authentic' and perhaps even 'rich and full of energy.' But when you make these assertions about sawtooths, it's just a bunch of biased hot air.

[Teksonik]

Or, consider that this 'full rich sound' is all in your head

It may well be all in my head but the few times I've demoed Arturia synths recently I found "something" lacking. My ears are on the outside of my head and I listen to what they tell me.

I'm not even going to try using words that have no real meaning to describe what that "something" is but I find it lacking.

There are some synths which do have that something so I can tell when it's missing.

That's not to say I don't like Arturia's synths or the company nor do I care one bit if they emulate the hardware perfectly.

I think they're all nice sounding synths but they just don't cross that fine line from nice into "wow" for me.

That being said I hope to own them all one day since as I say they are nice synths.

I hope both the Arturia and the Synapse OB sell millions....

[AnX]

2. Emulation Accuracy - Again, subjective.

how?

either its accurate, or it isnt

Because the human ear isn't perfect. So unless one knows the actual specs of the original and the specs of the emulation, given all they have is their ear to go on, their evaluation of the accuracy of the emulation is subjective.

And you know what? It doesn't even matter if the specs are identical (which it really can't be if you're comparing analog to what is now digital) if the person listening to the synth thinks that it doesn't sound like the original.

So yes, the interpretation of the accuracy, to the end user, is subjective.

And that's the only thing that ultimately matters.

ah OK, so this is subjective too then...

I owned a Korg Wavestation and used it for years. The Korg VST is identical. There is absolutely no difference. Nobody can tel me there is. It is dead on.

[wagtunes]

All I know is this. If Synapse doesn't come out with their synth soon and I'm on the final day of Arturia's sale, I will be picking up Arturia's version (it's good enough) and I won't be picking up Synapse Audio's version because I don't need 2 OB-Xa synths.

But aren't you in a position that many aren't where you could justify buying both in order to release sound sets in order to make a profit ?

Anyway saying you won't buy something before there is even a demo seems a bit premature.

All I know is when I bring up my..... or my Synapse Dune 3, they don't sound like Oberheims.

And thank god for that. DUNE 3 can sound so much better than anything I've heard from an Oberheim.

And there where go down that rabbit hole with the word "better" which is totally subjective.

Some people think the Polymoog sounds like crap. But if you want to do a Gary Numan cover, you damn well better have one if you want it to sound as authentic as possible. Dune 3 cannot sound like a true Polymoog. Not if you stood on your head and whistled Dixie. So I would take out my XILS PolyM before I took out my Dune 3 to do a Gary Numan cover or a song in that style.

That's why we have different tools at our disposal. We don't always necessarily have the "best" sounding synth.

Whatever the hell that even means because I still don't get it outside of "is the emulation accurate to the original?" In that case, if that's all you care about (and that's all that matters if you're doing Oberheim based song covers) then you're going to go with the synth that is the better emulation.

In an ideal world, knowing what I know about Synapse, I would buy their Oberheim over Arturia's in a heartbeat. But given that I don't know when it's coming out, that I don't know how much it's going to cost and that I know Arturia's sale ends after June 9th, there is only so long I'm going to wait.

And as far as business opportunities to sell libraries goes, well here are the numbers out of 80 libraries.

Synapse Stuff

Legend - 10th best seller
Dune 2 - 12th best seller
Dune 3 - 54th best seller

Arturia Stuff

V5 Collection - 8th best seller
V6 Collection - 20th best seller
Pigments - 33rd best seller

So as you can see, Arturia has a slight edge for me as it's more consistent. Dune 3 was a terrible disappointment for me, relatively speaking.

Of course, as you can see, the more recent stuff (Dune 3, Pigments) hasn't been doing as well and I think that has to do with saturation. I think there are just too many choices today and sales are more evenly distributed across the board as far as libraries go.

Naturally, I can't prove this without access to sales data but that's what my gut tells me.

Bottom Line: If I don't buy Synapse Audio's OB-Xa, I don't think I'll be losing out on a lot of income. Conversely, if I do buy Arturia's OB-Xa V, I think the number of sales, given the overall Arturia history for me, will be significant, even if this library ends up around 40th position, which is what I'm estimating.

But there really is no way to know. There is a lot of guess work in this business. I never thought in a million years that Softube Modular would be my best selling library by a country mile. I mean how many people buy modular synths?

And like I said, from a pure standpoint of using an Oberheim OB-Xa for a song, I don't need 2 of them. I will absolutely never use one of them.

[wagtunes]

2. Emulation Accuracy - Again, subjective.

how?

either its accurate, or it isnt

Because the human ear isn't perfect. So unless one knows the actual specs of the original and the specs of the emulation, given all they have is their ear to go on, their evaluation of the accuracy of the emulation is subjective.

And you know what? It doesn't even matter if the specs are identical (which it really can't be if you're comparing analog to what is now digital) if the person listening to the synth thinks that it doesn't sound like the original.

So yes, the interpretation of the accuracy, to the end user, is subjective.

And that's the only thing that ultimately matters.

ah OK, so this is subjective too then...

I owned a Korg Wavestation and used it for years. The Korg VST is identical. There is absolutely no difference. Nobody can tel me there is. It is dead on.

Yes, that is subjective too. Now go and find one person on this planet who owned a Wavestation who doesn't think the VST is dead on identical.

I'll wait.

[PAK]

2. Emulation Accuracy - Again, subjective.

how?
either its accurate, or it isnt

That's not really true. If only life were that simple It's common that some do only certain aspects better than others. It's also a bit of a moving target thanks to the whole "no two units sound the same" analogue thing.

But that should also be considered an emulation failing, as devs can choose to implement full calibration, which was put there to adjust for component differences and some variation over time. Of course, thereby removing something to hide behind. God forbid people admit the real reason for a difference was a lack of detail in their model, or just a failure to fully understand something.

The irony is calibration is there to reduce differences on the hardware, but you'd use them to introduce them with the software. Since we know there's 11 controls on each voice card (picture posted earlier ) that could mean 88 adjustments points on an 8 voice emulation. Which is actually not that much compared to a Jupiter 8

[wagtunes]

Or, consider that this 'full rich sound' is all in your head

It may well be all in my head but the few times I've demoed Arturia synths recently I found "something" lacking. My ears are on the outside of my head and I listen to what they tell me.

I'm not even going to try using words that have no real meaning to describe what that "something" is but I find it lacking.

There are some synths which do have that something so I can tell when it's missing.

That's not to say I don't like Arturia's synths or the company nor do I care one bit if they emulate the hardware perfectly.

I think they're all nice sounding synths but they just don't cross that fine line from nice into "wow" for me.

That being said I hope to own them all one day since as I say they are nice synths.

I hope both the Arturia and the Synapse OB sell millions....

I agree. Arturia synths are nice but none of them blow me away.

[Calenberger]

Or, consider that this 'full rich sound' is all in your head

It may well be all in my head but the few times I've demoed Arturia synths recently I found "something" lacking. My ears are on the outside of my head and I listen to what they tell me.

I'm not even going to try using words that have no real meaning to describe what that "something" is but I find it lacking.

There are some synths which do have that something so I can tell when it's missing.

That's not to say I don't like Arturia's synths or the company nor do I care one bit if they emulate the hardware perfectly.

I think they're all nice sounding synths but they just don't cross that fine line from nice into "wow" for me.

That being said I hope to own them all one day since as I say they are nice synths.

I hope both the Arturia and the Synapse OB sell millions....

I agree. Arturia synths are nice but none of them blow me away.

Yes, obviously, you are still here.

[AnX]

2. Emulation Accuracy - Again, subjective.

how?

either its accurate, or it isnt

Because the human ear isn't perfect. So unless one knows the actual specs of the original and the specs of the emulation, given all they have is their ear to go on, their evaluation of the accuracy of the emulation is subjective.

And you know what? It doesn't even matter if the specs are identical (which it really can't be if you're comparing analog to what is now digital) if the person listening to the synth thinks that it doesn't sound like the original.

So yes, the interpretation of the accuracy, to the end user, is subjective.

And that's the only thing that ultimately matters.

ah OK, so this is subjective too then...

I owned a Korg Wavestation and used it for years. The Korg VST is identical. There is absolutely no difference. Nobody can tel me there is. It is dead on.

Yes, that is subjective too. Now go and find one person on this planet who owned a Wavestation who doesn't think the VST is dead on identical.

I'll wait.

i know two who think that actually, and refused to sell their hardware, but i personally have never compared them, don't like the sound so don't care.