Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
Milkman
KVRer
16 posts since 17 Mar, 2005 from Bay Area

Post Thu May 21, 2020 1:30 pm

jancivil wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 1:21 pm
VSL. It’s not real cheap, but now it comes with some of Vienna Suite Pro “mastering suite” plugins. The big thing is it does multicore much better than Cubase. And it hosts in a process that is unburdened by Cubase’s processes, which is huge if you use many VIs at the same time or have a heavy samples load.
Very, very interesting. I am on their page right now, @ VSL dot CO. This gets me excited!! The cost is $200ish, but the fact that someone/some vendor understands the frustrations and pressures we face in heavy VST(i)/MIDI environments, is moralizing. Thank you! I am going to reach out to them right now and start a convo about their product.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19574 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Thu May 21, 2020 2:29 pm

there is a 30 day demo, totally unrestricted

you already have the dongle, but last I heard the demo didn’t need it.
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Forgotten
KVRAF
11398 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Thu May 21, 2020 2:45 pm

My understanding is that this is a layer that's only necessary on a Mac because of the way that Steinberg builds its sound engines - they do it in a very Windows-centric way (ASIO is only required by Windows where a layer is required to give direct access to the sound card) rather than access hardware in the way that other DAWs do (i.e. just use CoreAudio).

I think issues with ASIO Guard are things that Steinberg needs to fix.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19574 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Thu May 21, 2020 3:25 pm

Cubendo actually uses something called ASIO to Core Audio dot bundle (obv. not this spelling) to translate. Last I looked, but I do doubt anything has changed, or will change.
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Milkman
KVRer
16 posts since 17 Mar, 2005 from Bay Area

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Thu May 21, 2020 4:13 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:45 pm
My understanding is that this is a layer that's only necessary on a Mac because of the way that Steinberg builds its sound engines - they do it in a very Windows-centric way (ASIO is only required by Windows where a layer is required to give direct access to the sound card) rather than access hardware in the way that other DAWs do (i.e. just use CoreAudio).

I think issues with ASIO Guard are things that Steinberg needs to fix.
This is also my understanding, and why (for rendering graphics) vulkan API is so nice when implemented properly. Vulkan goes right to the bare-metal of the hardware, and avoids directx/3d/etc.

Perhaps some day, our great benefactors at microsoft will "gift" the digital audio community with a specific low-level API to accomplish better multithreading/scheduling. Or some other benefactor (steinberg? lol) will create a low level API of their own, no thanks to M$.

ASIO Guard is bizarre. Sometimes I see improvements with it, and I watch average load and spikes drop. Other times, it immediately overloads, or overloads very quickly with similar project loads and routing. Fixing ASIO guard would be one of my highest priorities, if I could choose what the devs over there work on.

auron
KVRist
74 posts since 4 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Thu May 21, 2020 10:00 pm

Milkman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:26 pm
Hello -- anyone use those versions of cubase, or any older, and seeing that ASIO processing overload problem that generates pops and clicks? Using ASIO guard ON or OFF, with small projects or large projects?

Ive been troubleshooting this for 2 months, and the conclusion, for me, has been to disable all virtual cores on my CPU. Im on an intel x299 chipset MB, i7 7800x CPU, 32GB RAM, focusrite 8i6 gen3, cubase 10.5. Steinberg ran me around in email and on their forums for months, and brand-protectors on their forum tried to suggest it was someone else's issue, but the bottom line is the multithreading/multimedia-multithreading issue stops many people from using virtual cores on many platforms.

Here is steinberg claiming hyperthreading "usually results in performance improvements when using ASIO guard". https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... ASIO-Guard

Does anyone have any experience with this? Right now I am angggggggry at Steinberg, and am stuck with half my cores, like I was..... in 2003 when I used cubase sx2, lol.
Believe me i am in the same boat . I have my ryzen 1700 since november 2018 and this introduces 8 virtual cores as well, that means my system shows 16 cores in task manager. Two things i noticed since Cubase 9 (have 10.5.12 pro now....) that lets say only 10 % cpu usage in task manager but it can have 80-90% asio load but really 2-3 tracks only playing in cubase. I also noticed that other users are running more cores (18c/24c and so on...) and cant get the benefit of it. I tried to run plugins OUTSIDE of cubase now its getting interesting. As long you are running plugins outside of cubase you can get your asio load pretty low. You can try also jbridge and click on that "performance mode" option from jbridge. This mode has this effect "Audio buffers will be processed asynchronously, can improve performance with some plugin/host combinations".

I think as long cubase is running plugins synchronously you will get those weird asio loads, but there is no option saying please run plugins outside of cubase or change the multithread affinity/model like reaper does. This is really unprofessional for a "major daw".

if you are using VSL its the same thing having plugins outside of cubase running, but this VSL is not cheap. Some other guys mentioned Cubase System link and running Cubase elements and Cubase pro to have plugins running on a dedicated machine.

I also sent a ticket to steinberg with this multicore/multithread topic and after 5 months (!) i got an answer mentioning the same helpcenter article... :roll:

Milkman
KVRer
16 posts since 17 Mar, 2005 from Bay Area

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Fri May 22, 2020 11:44 am

auron wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:00 pm
Milkman wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 12:26 pm
Hello -- anyone use those versions of cubase, or any older, and seeing that ASIO processing overload problem that generates pops and clicks? Using ASIO guard ON or OFF, with small projects or large projects?

Ive been troubleshooting this for 2 months, and the conclusion, for me, has been to disable all virtual cores on my CPU. Im on an intel x299 chipset MB, i7 7800x CPU, 32GB RAM, focusrite 8i6 gen3, cubase 10.5. Steinberg ran me around in email and on their forums for months, and brand-protectors on their forum tried to suggest it was someone else's issue, but the bottom line is the multithreading/multimedia-multithreading issue stops many people from using virtual cores on many platforms.

Here is steinberg claiming hyperthreading "usually results in performance improvements when using ASIO guard". https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... ASIO-Guard

Does anyone have any experience with this? Right now I am angggggggry at Steinberg, and am stuck with half my cores, like I was..... in 2003 when I used cubase sx2, lol.
Believe me i am in the same boat . I have my ryzen 1700 since november 2018 and this introduces 8 virtual cores as well, that means my system shows 16 cores in task manager. Two things i noticed since Cubase 9 (have 10.5.12 pro now....) that lets say only 10 % cpu usage in task manager but it can have 80-90% asio load but really 2-3 tracks only playing in cubase. I also noticed that other users are running more cores (18c/24c and so on...) and cant get the benefit of it. I tried to run plugins OUTSIDE of cubase now its getting interesting. As long you are running plugins outside of cubase you can get your asio load pretty low. You can try also jbridge and click on that "performance mode" option from jbridge. This mode has this effect "Audio buffers will be processed asynchronously, can improve performance with some plugin/host combinations".

I think as long cubase is running plugins synchronously you will get those weird asio loads, but there is no option saying please run plugins outside of cubase or change the multithread affinity/model like reaper does. This is really unprofessional for a "major daw".

if you are using VSL its the same thing having plugins outside of cubase running, but this VSL is not cheap. Some other guys mentioned Cubase System link and running Cubase elements and Cubase pro to have plugins running on a dedicated machine.

I also sent a ticket to steinberg with this multicore/multithread topic and after 5 months (!) i got an answer mentioning the same helpcenter article... :roll:
Thank you for sharing your experience!! Exactly the same with me -- external CPU and resource meters show 10-15% load, internal ASIO processing in cubase shows 30-50-75-100% in leaps and jumps, hitting the red. After disabling all my virtual cores, cubase internal meter looks closer to the external meter, and does not overload.

Verrry interesting, about your experience offloading VSTs to external hosts, and I plan to look at jbridge, too. Steinberg should *absolutely* admit they cannot (currently) make this work with this current philosophy for all users, and offer workarounds and honest pinned-posts on their forums!! Offering an "external processing module", and putting that through development and QA cycles, would be a huge benefit, if they can pull that off.

Ah, so you got the support email runaround too eh? I feel lucky! My first response only took 3 weeks to arrive, and the second took another 3-4 weeks. haha

On their forums.... sycophants/brand managers claim "this is your issue. I know it makes you mad when nobody else experiences the issue and only you do, that can be frustrating, yeah."
I KNOW lots of people experience this, and their threads are on the forums there, and here!!! grrr

I knew I could get some honest commentary here. Cant get it over there...

NeoKortex88
KVRist
141 posts since 3 Dec, 2018

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Sat May 23, 2020 4:53 am

i also had that problem but starting and running logic for a sec fixed the cubase problem for a while.
Maybe try running some tracks on garageband (its free) and see if it fixes your cubase problems?

Piotr979
KVRist
50 posts since 14 Apr, 2007

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Sun May 24, 2020 6:59 am

I have a serious issue with Cubase 10.5 pro on mac (iMac 2017 27" 16GB). When I switch preset in any VST instrument like synth or sampler (Kontakt) It almost always freezes audio for like 3-5 seconds. When I press keys on my keyboard controller after that time I hear big wall of sounds I just played for 3-5 seconds.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19574 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Anyone using cubase 10/10.5, windows or mac, getting ASIO internal processing overloads??

Post Sun May 24, 2020 7:10 am

n/m
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