Upcoming Synapse OB-Xa: Obsession

[e-crooner]

What makes you think such a minor change would take months to implement?! Shouldn't take more than 3 days.

And to answer your first question, someone wrote something like this many pages ago (albeit in a different context): the worst beta test team ever

[wagtunes]

What makes you think such a minor change would take months to implement?! Shouldn't take more than 3 days.

And to answer your first question, someone wrote something like this many pages ago (albeit in a different context): the worst beta test team ever

So you're an expert coder. You know exactly how long GUI changes take. You know all the ins and outs of creating a synth and everything that goes into it.

You should start your own company and start making some money creating world class synths. I know I'd buy one if it was really good.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Nobody has to worry about the synth being delayed for months due to GUI stuff. Richard himself posted the image on the beta forum that was sent to him by someone here suggesting to move the mod section down and asked some opinions about layout. He would not be doing that if it would significantly delay things. There are still a few things being discussed, but I'm pretty sure Synapse wants to release it more than anyone else and can make up their own mind about what minor GUI changes they might make. He's very receptive but surely wouldn't delay the schedule unnecessarily, so I think people can chill about that question.

[e-crooner]

What makes you think such a minor change would take months to implement?! Shouldn't take more than 3 days.

And to answer your first question, someone wrote something like this many pages ago (albeit in a different context): the worst beta test team ever

So you're an expert coder. You know exactly how long GUI changes take. You know all the ins and outs of creating a synth and everything that goes into it.

You should start your own company and start making some money creating world class synths. I know I'd buy one if it was really good.

Who knows, I am using the Corona downtime to learn programming...

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I don’t think it’s better to delay at this point. But I hope it gets updated at a later time.

Because making some of the changes we’ve been discussing would make it better IMO.

[vitocorleone123]

Really, first world problems. Sheesh.

Very true!

And we are arguing the little stuff. I’ve no doubt it’s going to sound great and the UI won’t be any stranger to learn than any other synth.

It would have to be shockingly bad for me not to buy it on release day.

[urosh]

1. Why is Osc2 Detune in the Control section and not the Oscillator section?

Because it was not in Oscillator section but in Control section on OB-Xa

2. Why is Crossmod in the Control section and not the Oscillator section or even the Mod section?

Because it was not present at all on OB-Xa.


GUI is perfectly good as it is right now, these ideas to "improve" it would just fu*k it up.

[BONES]

Unlike the Xa, Dune 3 has a big display, else the filter would probably be to the right of the oscillators.

That screen could have been placed anywhere, it was a deliberate decision to put it where you think the filter should go.

1. Why is Osc2 Detune in the Control section and not the Oscillator section?

This is a question for Oberheim, not Synapse.

2. Why is Crossmod in the Control section and not the Oscillator section or even the Mod section?

I imagine it's because they wanted to preserve the original layout of the hardware, which doesn't have that control at all, so they stuck where there was a space.

Only answer I can possibly think of: because a decision was made early on to use the exact same GUI dimensions as The Legend... Otherwise, maybe you gotta make knobs smaller, or move some stuff around, or maybe make the whole thing bigger, then that creates maybe an issue with the Reason Rack GUI...

Correct, so the only way to go is down, which would look weird.

..but the answer isn't "because it makes sense to have those things where they are"

It is if you are trying to emulate something that exists in the real world. You try not to change it any more than is necessary, don't you?

The mock-ups with the oscillators on top, particularly the one with Osc2 and Crossmod at least close to the Osc2 knobs, make sense for a plugin GUI where you want to put the most important things front and center.

I would argue that in practice, the oscillator section is one of the least important parts of a synth UI. You don't interact with it nearly as much as you do with the filters, envelopes or other modulation sources. It's much more a "set and forget" part of the process.

If this were a hardware desktop unit, yeah, having the oscs and filters on the bottom row where they're closest to the user's hands makes sense.

If that makes sense then so does your positioning of the UI window within your host application and, here again, having those things on the bottom puts them closer to hand during that time when you are likely to be flicking from one to the other. (That's assuming your piano roll is at the bottom of your host's UI, like Cubase.)

We also read from left to right and top down in the west, which is why our eyes expect important things to be near the top. So when designing for a screen, it's not a great idea to put the oscillators and filters at the bottom, but it's much better to put them front and center.

Of course it is and it meets your criteria, too. What's most important? Global parameters that effect everything, like the main Volume control. But synths aren't generally organised along those lines, they try to follow the signal path, which is why the main Volume is often the last thing, not the first. Modulators like LFO aren't in the signal path, so you can put them wherever you like. As I've pointed out several times already, in signal flow diagrams it is more common to see modulators above the main signal path than below, so it doesn't feel wrong at all to have the LFO above the oscillators and filter.

If from the outset, Richard designed the GUI in a way where the Oscs and filter were front and center, and I came on here bitching about how they should be at the bottom of the GUI, you'd all think I was completely insane.

It has very little to do with Richard, Tom Oberheim designed the OB-Xa that way. Rich is just trying to follow the original.

Basically saying, "it's already designed like this and 'good enough'

No, what we're saying is that it is designed like this for good and valid reasons and it makes no difference to the usability of the synth. You just have trouble reading that and remembering it, because it doesn't suit you to.

I don’t think it’s better to delay at this point. But I hope it gets updated at a later time. Because making some of the changes we’ve been discussing would make it better IMO.

No, it would just make it different. Adding a SEM filter would make it better, doubling the polyphony would make it better but rearranging the GUI would just make it different. Changing it after it was released would also piss off a lot of people who got used it the way it is.

[zvenx]

Tom Oberheim also made it Left to Right, not Top to Bottom and as I had mentioned before the OSC/Filter/Envelope takes up about 60% of the Hardware's Interface.

Anyway it is what it is..... if it sounds great I will I am sure get accustomed to it as it is.
rsp

[wagtunes]

The apocalypse must be coming because I totally agree with Bones.

I better mark my calendar.

[Teksonik]

I don't care if they change the GUI or not. I won't be baffled, confused, or intimidated by it one way or the other.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way it is but if changing it will shut people up then by all means do so....

1. Why wasn't all this brought up by the beta testers the FIRST time they looked at this GUI? I mean NOBODY said "Holy shit Richard, this GUI is totally f**ked up!"

Probably because it's not f**ked up and beta testers have actually used the plugin instead of just viewing a screenshot.

[BONES]

If you look at it, I think it might shut two or three people up. Most people don't really seem to care one way or the other and I think it would be stupid to change anything because two or three people had a whinge.

Tom Oberheim also made it Left to Right, not Top to Bottom and as I had mentioned before the OSC/Filter/Envelope takes up about 60% of the Hardware's Interface.

First off, Tom's imperative was that he had a 5 octave keyboard sitting below it, so horizontal made the most sense. Rich's imperative is that it has to fit in the Reason rack, so he has had to compromise but at least he has followed the same section/parameter order as Mr Oberheim. I'd also suggest the osc/filter/env sections might take up 60% of the width but that part isn't very deep, with the patch banks below, so I reckon it's only 30% overall, just as it is in OBSession.

[NERF_PROTOSS]

I gotta say this "the most important things should be at the top" mantra strikes me as just wrong, and not reflected in most of the software we use regularly. what's more important in a browser, the page display or the file menu? the toolbar in a word processor or the actual text?

the focal point of your screen is not the top. where are you looking when you read this text? the most important things should be in the middle so as to minimise mouse travel time and eye strain.

[Vortifex]

1. Why is Osc2 Detune in the Control section and not the Oscillator section?

Because it was not in Oscillator section but in Control section on OB-Xa

2. Why is Crossmod in the Control section and not the Oscillator section or even the Mod section?

Because it was not present at all on OB-Xa.


GUI is perfectly good as it is right now, these ideas to "improve" it would just fu*k it up.

The original didn't have shimmer fx or bandpass filter so really that kind of argument is invalid.

[schpaeckulum]

OR with voice edits/mutes on top:

+ 1

I have some nitpicks:
- 'Voice adjustment edit' sounds dumb, and 'Loudness envelope' sounds dumb.
- The knobs are obnoxious, esp. the inner 'starry' part and the 'material'
- Does it have to look like a pensioner's jacket suit?
- Obsessed with italics, are we at a Formula 1 race?

EDIT: But it has wood panels!