Simple way to get rid from Ableton Live midi out's limitation when using VST arpeggiators,sequencers,reason 11 players..

[Forgotten]

Forgotten -- here is my use case. In Ableton, I create a chords track and run it through ChordPortion. ChordPotion is a fun tool that takes chord MIDI information and creates up to four MIDI sequences that can be routed to four MIDI channels. I want to route each of those four MIDI sequences to a separate track in Ableton -- say a bass track, a lead melody track, a chord rhythm track, and a something shiny track. But I can't do that.

I can output the full MIDI output from ChordPotion to another track, but not split it by channels. The workaround is that I create my Chordpotion track with the chord sequence, then duplicate that track three times, so I have four copies of the same thing, and then I can run the MIDI I want to their respective instruments. So whereas I would like to have one chord track and four instrument tracks, now I have four chord tracks and four instrument tracks. Plus, if I decide to make a change to my progression, I have to change it in four places, so I have yet another track for chord source, so I can modify it there and copy to the ChordPotion tracks -- so 9 tracks when five should suffice. I suspect it's a similar scenario with Reason.

It's not the end of the world, which I'm guessing is why Ableton hasn't done anything about it, but it's pretty irritating.

I think it's likely to be a rare use case, as I can't think when I would ever need to do that, and there are 3rd party tools that will do it if I need to.

I'd imagine it's pretty low on Ableton's list of features to implement as there would be a lot of other features being asked for in comparison to this one.

[Biscotto]

Maybe this?
https://cycling74.com/forums/using-a-m4 ... i-channels

[Smapti]

Maybe this?
https://cycling74.com/forums/using-a-m4 ... i-channels

 

Unfortunately this doesn't work (I think). The linked devices are very useful -- they appear to be the MIDI Sender and Receiver from the free Pitch and Time Machines pack -- but they don't solve the problem since Live doesn't even see different MIDI channels. Once MIDI data leaves a plugin, Live merges it to a single channel. (Weirdly, Live does allow you to send notes to different MIDI input channels for a multitimbral VSTi, but you can't tap multiple output channels.)

The best I've been able to do (without buying anything additional like Bidule) is split MIDI output by key range: you can set up a midi rack in conjunction with MIDI Senders and MIDI Receivers to send different key ranges to different channels. This of course does not entirely solve the problem, but if you can live with splitting your output into different key ranges then this is a workaround.

[pottering]

What is really important in OP's main post is the virtual MIDI cables (like IAC or loopmidi), not the plugins or plugin hosts.

I'm pretty sure OP could have used just Reason itself with loopmidi, no need to use Reason VST in a host like Bidule.

[babyblue]

a way to get rid from this annoying Ableton Live limitation

There's even better way - get Bitwig! It fully supports MIDI channels and since 3.2 beta5 also routes incoming CC from VSTs, so you can use all the LFOs, Envelopes, MSEGs in Reason Rack VST you want in Bitwig too (you can't in Ableton)

Is there possibly a video which describes the steps from the beginning and preferably the audible benefit of this possibilities?

[WasteLand]

i think this can be done with kushview element (which is free, only you get not the latest version.. see the website), didn't try it yet.

[hauke]

i think this can be done with kushview element (which is free, only you get not the latest version.. see the website), didn't try it yet.

Thanks for the tip with the free Kushview Element! I haven't heard of it before, but I could manage to get it to work with ChordPotion and multi-channel MIDI

I made a short uncommented video that shows ChordPotion inside Element. The ChordPotion MIDI output goes to two different synth instances that listen to MIDI channels 1 and 2 respectively.

You can watch it here:


Short guide:

• Install Element.
• Start the standalone Element app and scan for VST plug-ins (this doesn't seem to work in the plug-in version, so you need to do it in the standalone version).
• Open your DAW, insert an Element plug-in into a channel.
• Load ChordPotion inside Element, route two different rows to two different MIDI channels.
• Insert a Channel Splitter ("Element -> MIDI Channel Splitter").
• Connect the orange ChortPotion MIDI output dot to the MIDI Channel Splitter.
• Create two different synth instances.
• Connect each instance to a different MIDI Channel Splitter output.
• Route the audio output of each synth to the main Audio Output.

I also found a way to route the audio output to different audio tracks inside Ableton Live. You can see this in the second half of the video.

Cheers,
Hauke of FeelYourSound

[WasteLand]

i think this can be done with kushview element (which is free, only you get not the latest version.. see the website), didn't try it yet.

Thanks for the tip with the free Kushview Element! I haven't heard of it before, but I could manage to get it to work with ChordPotion and multi-channel MIDI

I made a short uncommented video that shows ChordPotion inside Element. The ChordPotion MIDI output goes to two different synth instances that listen to MIDI channels 1 and 2 respectively.

You can watch it here:


Short guide:

• Install Element.
• Start the standalone Element app and scan for VST plug-ins (this doesn't seem to work in the plug-in version, so you need to do it in the standalone version).
• Open your DAW, insert an Element plug-in into a channel.
• Load ChordPotion inside Element, route two different rows to two different MIDI channels.
• Insert a Channel Splitter ("Element -> MIDI Channel Splitter").
• Connect the orange ChortPotion MIDI output dot to the MIDI Channel Splitter.
• Create two different synth instances.
• Connect each instance to a different MIDI Channel Splitter output.
• Route the audio output of each synth to the main Audio Output.

I also found a way to route the audio output to different audio tracks inside Ableton Live. You can see this in the second half of the video.

Cheers,
Hauke of FeelYourSound

and a nice plugin chortpotion!

i didn't use element for midi yet, only for cubase, for instance, for effects with multiple outs..
i see the midi channel splitter.. my head isn't working today.. also a workaround to get MPE in ableton, much easier, then it now can be done (in way not that complex, but not that creative, for workflow, and have other DAW's, so..) but still, i shall experiment, if i can today.

thanks for your vid! a lot of nice stuff is floating around, and element is a plugin that can be used if your daw has some midi or sound-routing limitations.

this opens possibilities, didn't dive into kushview element that deep. knew about the midi possibilities, but never explored them..