2CAudio Precedence | 1.5 | Move Out Of Flatland. Take Precedence.

[Sampleconstruct]

You can automate it as long as there is no signal passing through while the nodes are moving, demonstrated in the video below which I did about a year ago.
https://youtu.be/u_l7p-IGpxg

[jens]

No, this is wrong!

Actually you can NOT automate it because 2CAudio decided to deliberately NOT expose the parameters to the host.

That being said, however there are apparently some (very few) hosts that still somehow manage to be aware of their existence.
I.e. These hosts allow it DESPITE 2CAudio doing everything they can to prevent the user from being able to automate the Parameters .

Their argument is that they want it to be their decision that the user shall rather not be able to automate these parameters at all than to have un-smooth (artifact-ridden) automation. They clearly do not want the user to be able to haver that kind of choice. Apparently so because:

a) they do not see the point of it
b) they do not want to add non-working or only half-working features
c) they dread complaints because it doesn't work properly (ie. without heavy artifacts)

They keep choosing to ignore arguments that it would be perfectly possible to have artifact-free automation during silent passages/moments and that therefor they shall rather expose the parameters in order to offer at least automation during silence.

Samplitude is one of the hosts where it works nontheless. I also heard that it e.g. works in FL - since I don't have it, I can not verify.

However no such luck e.g. in Studio One, Reaper, Reason, Cubase, Waveform.

For me this is a very serious issue, albeit totally loving PBJ otherwise.

[Mushy Mushy]

Actually you can NOT automate it because 2CAudio decided to deliberately NOT expose the parameters to the host.

This is how I discovered it. Initially I tried to add them as quick controls in Cubase and they weren't there, then I tried looking for them in the automation lanes and nothing.

a) they do not see the point of it

It's a complete show stopper for me. I intended to map the parameters to a touch pad and use it as an X/Y controller for a 3D soundfield. I was planning on having say a pad or lead and moving it forward/back, side to side as it played. So personally, for me at least, this is useless as is.

[Mushy Mushy]

andrew has expounded at length as to why this is not feasible
w/ their particular approach ...

Ok, thanks. So the answer is up there somewhere ^

TBH, if it can't be done it can't be done, I'm not really interested in understanding why. Instead I'll look for another solution. It's a shame though because I do like 2C-Audio products.

[jens]

For me it's kind of similar. As I said, I totally love PBJ otherwise and think it's super brilliant, howewer I have been begging them to expose at least angle for a looong time. For my mixes it's a crucial and vital part of the arragement to ocassionally change the stereo position of tracks between sections. There's a 1000 good valid reasons to do so.

For them it should be trivial, basically just adding a flag to do so. So they absolutely dliberately kept releasing updates without doing so.

[jens]

TBH, if it can't be done it can't be done, I'm not really interested in understanding why. Instead I'll look for another solution. It's a shame though because I do like 2C-Audio products.

It can be done. Hosts such as Samplitude prove it. Again: it's a deliberate choice from 2CA.

[Mushy Mushy]

For me it's kind of similar. As I said, I totally love PBJ otherwise and think it's super brilliant, howewer I have been begging them to expose at least angle for a looong time. For my mixes it's a crucial and vital part of the arragement to ocassionally change the stereo position of tracks between sections. There's a 1000 good valid reasons to do so.

For them it should be trivial, basically just adding a flag to do so. So they absolutely dliberately kept releasing updates without doing so.

If the counterargument is that it introduces artifacts then I don't buy it. The first thing I did was sweep it around with my mouse and it sounded great so then I thought let's now automate it, and er where is it?

So automation causes artifacts but mouse manipulation doesn't? That seems unlikely to me.

[Mushy Mushy]

TBH, if it can't be done it can't be done, I'm not really interested in understanding why. Instead I'll look for another solution. It's a shame though because I do like 2C-Audio products.

It can be done. Hosts such as Samplitude prove it. Again: it's a deliberate choice from 2CA.

Ah ok, thanks. I'm not about to change DAW just on account of this though. You don't move house because the coffee table doesn't fit, instead you choose a different coffee table.

[jens]

Exactly!

[jens]

For me it's kind of similar. As I said, I totally love PBJ otherwise and think it's super brilliant, howewer I have been begging them to expose at least angle for a looong time. For my mixes it's a crucial and vital part of the arragement to ocassionally change the stereo position of tracks between sections. There's a 1000 good valid reasons to do so.

For them it should be trivial, basically just adding a flag to do so. So they absolutely dliberately kept releasing updates without doing so.

If the counterargument is that it introduces artifacts then I don't buy it. The first thing I did was sweep it around with my mouse and it sounded great so then I thought let's now automate it, and er where is it?

So automation causes artifacts but mouse manipulation doesn't? That seems unlikely to me.

It's exactly the same artifacts. I assume it depends a lot on your buffer-sizes etc.

It's certainly not that bad - it's not like your hosts explodes when manipulating the parameters during playback or something...

[Mushy Mushy]

It's exactly the same artifacts. I assume it depends a lot on your buffer-sizes etc.

It's certainly not that bad - it's not like your hosts explodes when manipulating the parameters during playback or something...

I'll uninstall the demo then and check back on this thread when v2 is released. However, by then it's entirely likely another solution has come along and I've forgotten about Precedence.

[Gamma-UT]

If you moved stuff around and there were no artifacts, then that’s pretty unusual. You will get glitches, similar to those you get from automating a reverb that isn’t designed for smoothly changing parameters. They tend to be more noticeable if they are distance rather than panning changes.

Realistically, if you want a psychoacoustic moving lead, something like TDR’s Proximity with a stereo panner is going to deliver more usable results for that source.

[Mushy Mushy]

If you moved stuff around and there were no artifacts, then that’s pretty unusual. You will get glitches, similar to those you get from automating a reverb that isn’t designed for smoothly changing parameters. They tend to be more noticeable if they are distance rather than panning changes.

I did initially but they reduced greatly after decreasing the values at the bottom of the plugin (ie, freq, depth, time, etc).

Realistically, if you want a psychoacoustic moving lead, something like TDR’s Proximity with a stereo panner is going to deliver more usable results for that source.

Fantastic. Will try that. And free too? Superb!

[jens]

Yeah, there may be workarounds for this but indeed Precendence would certainly not be my first choice for this, even if they would make distance and angle automatable. Its purpose is certainly a different one.

But of course These kind of special effects are not at all the only reason to automate the position of an element within an arrangement.

[experimental.crow]

No, this is wrong!

Actually you can NOT automate it because 2CAudio decided to deliberately NOT expose the parameters to the host.

That being said, however there are apparently some (very few) hosts that still somehow manage to be aware of their existence.
I.e. These hosts allow it DESPITE 2CAudio doing everything they can to prevent the user from being able to automate the Parameters .

Their argument is that they want it to be their decision that the user shall rather not be able to automate these parameters at all than to have un-smooth (artifact-ridden) automation. They clearly do not want the user to be able to haver that kind of choice. Apparently so because:

a) they do not see the point of it
b) they do not want to add non-working or only half-working features
c) they dread complaints because it doesn't work properly (ie. without heavy artifacts)

They keep choosing to ignore arguments that it would be perfectly possible to have artifact-free automation during silent passages/moments and that therefor they shall rather expose the parameters in order to offer at least automation during silence.

Samplitude is one of the hosts where it works nontheless. I also heard that it e.g. works in FL - since I don't have it, I can not verify.

However no such luck e.g. in Studio One, Reaper, Reason, Cubase, Waveform.

For me this is a very serious issue, albeit totally loving PBJ otherwise.

it does ...