Bitwig 3.2 is released, demo available.

[SLiC]

I honestly don't understand why they put so much time and energy in to making more plugins every update. It's marketable I guess but I wish they focused solely on workflow improvements for once.

Well, it's their choice but Bitwig is so close to being my preferred DAW over Ableton.

It could be argued that a really good EQ is fundamental to music production and there are a lot of advantages having it built in the DAW (like seeing the graphic display in mixer and being able to alter the EQ from the inspector for each track without having to leave the mixer view or open another window). Its not like they added something no one needs or asked for like a wavetable synth

Personally, Bitwig is far ahead of Live for me now in most workflow aspects (I am on Live suite 10.1)
I find it quite hard to use Live now after getting used to unlimited smart collections (not just 7!!) more mappable keys, the pop up smart browser (not back to 'search' all the time in Lives browser). Modulation and expression is far easier to apply than with the max tools, CV is better integrated (important to me) as is MPE and (the killer feature) you can edit audio in clips without having to switch to an arranger view! This was pretty much the reason I switched from 9 to Bitwig many years back (although I still always used Live as well as I like the packs and controller integration). Based on most feedback (even on the Live forums) Bitwig is better with CPU as well (it seems that way to me but I have not used any scientific method!).

Live has the groovepool, midi capture, better drawing tools for automation, audio to midi and better hardware support, MAX (as a pro and a con!) but almost everything else I prefer Bitwig now and it just keeps getting better 'faster'. (and the new Live Beta .17 adds nothing really new which was disappointing ). I really hope Live gets a big update soon (a 10.5) with some really cool and original stuff...I have a foot in both camps!

Horses for courses, but overall I think Bitwig have added hundreds of small new workflow features with 3, 3.1 and 3.1...too many to list... and it was great to see that at least half a dozen of the new ones in 3.2 came directly from KVR Feedback

[Vladislav_Gronk]

They really do both, but indeed since v3 the balance seems to have shifted towards grid/devices slightly. But even then, look at EQ+ vs. EQ-5 - two things that always pissed me off with EQ-5 was that you need to enable/disable nodes with a separate button and that shelves & filters were not available except for 1st and 5th node. EQ+ solves both (+ adds lots more) and as a result it makes you work faster. Unless you don't use native devices at all and instead load Pro-Q3 or whatever, then sure.

But for me Bitwig - a bit like Reason - excels when using it standalone or with a limited number of plugins. Maybe that's why they focus on native stuff, to make it really self-sustained?

It could be argued that a really good EQ is fundamental to music production and there are a lot of advantages having it built in the DAW (like seeing the graphic display in mixer and being able to alter the EQ from the inspector for each track without having to leave the mixer view or open another window). Its not like they added something no one needs or asked for like a wavetable synth

Personally, Bitwig is far ahead of Live for me now in most workflow aspects (I am on Live suite 10.1)
I find it quite hard to use Live now after getting used to unlimited smart collections (not just 7!!) more mappable keys, the pop up smart browser (not back to 'search' all the time in Lives browser). Modulation and expression is far easier to apply than with the max tools, CV is better integrated (important to me) as is MPE and (the killer feature) you can edit audio in clips without having to switch to an arranger view! This was pretty much the reason I switched from 9 to Bitwig many years back (although I still always used Live as well as I like the packs and controller integration). Based on most feedback (even on the Live forums) Bitwig is better with CPU as well (it seems that way to me but I have not used any scientific method!).

Live has the groovepool, midi capture, better drawing tools for automation, audio to midi and better hardware support, MAX (as a pro and a con!) but almost everything else I prefer Bitwig now and it just keeps getting better 'faster'. (and the new Live Beta .17 adds nothing really new which was disappointing ). I really hope Live gets a big update soon (a 10.5) with some really cool and original stuff...I have a foot in both camps!

Horses for courses, but overall I think Bitwig have added hundreds of small new workflow features with 3, 3.1 and 3.1...too many to list... and it was great to see that at least half a dozen of the new ones in 3.2 came directly from KVR Feedback

Yeah, you both have fair points and I don't wanna come off as too much of a killjoy since Bitwig is doing great things. I just think there is a lot of untapped potential in the actual songwriting part of the program because it's already close to perfect for sound designing and tinkering.

[SLiC]

Oh yeh- its definitely not perfect (we await comping ) but I think 'in comparison to Live' it has come a long way in a relatively short time with just 4-5 developers! That said, for 'song writing' (especially with live recorded audio) 'Studio One' would be the one to beat (for me) and that is a difficult task Studio One also keeps getting better!

[antic604]

I just think there is a lot of untapped potential in the actual songwriting part of the program because it's already close to perfect for sound designing and tinkering.

Oh, that's something that you don't need to convince either of us

But - frankly - it's the same for any other DAW, maybe except for Cubase or Logic that have (almost) EVERYTHING because they've been on the market for decades.

[SLiC]

I just think there is a lot of untapped potential in the actual songwriting part of the program because it's already close to perfect for sound designing and tinkering.

But - frankly - it's the same for any other DAW, maybe except for Cubase or Logic that have (almost) EVERYTHING because they've been on the market for decades.

Yup- Cubase is a powerhouse, but I switched to S1 as it as 'more modern' (single window, drag and drop etc) and frankly much easier on the eye and easier to use...Cubase did keep adding stuff and trying to modernise but it never seemed very well integrated (or finished) to me- just new ideas 'layered on top'.

I really think Bigwig are trying to add things whilst keeping simplicity (the same can be said for Live to an even more 'make sure it works ' and 'keep it simple' extent!). Like it or not a small development team can keep focused on a style, vision and integrated workflow...harder with big teams and bigger corporations who probably have other drivers than 'a vision'! Also I suspect it is far easier to start from scratch like Bigwig did than try and modernise/change the way a DAW has worked (and was built) for years.

[fmr]

I suspect it is far easier to start from scratch like Bigwig did than try and modernize/change the way a DAW has worked (and was built) for years.

I would like to add Digital Performer to the picture of old DAWs where the composition task has a lot more tools to work with.

Regarding the start from scratch, you are right to an extent. Of course having to keep up with legacy code, and workflows that have to be respected because the user base would be pissed if they disappear, is sometimes a curse.

OTOH, Live and Bitwig are built over a different paradigm, and that's why I am not certain they will ever be a good composition tool (but can be a good improvisation and/or sound design tool).

Studio One was built over the same paradigm as Cubase/Digital Performer/Logic, that's why it seems better equipped than Live and Bitwig. IMO

[SLiC]

I suspect it is far easier to start from scratch like Bigwig did than try and modernize/change the way a DAW has worked (and was built) for years.

I would like to add Digital Performer to the picture of old DAWs where the composition task has a lot more tools to work with.

Regarding the start from scratch, you are right to an extent. Of course having to keep up with legacy code, and workflows that have to be respected because the user base would be pissed if they disappear, is sometimes a curse.

OTOH, Live and Bitwig are built over a different paradigm, and that's why I am not certain they will ever be a good composition tool (but can be a good improvisation and/or sound design tool).

Studio One was built over the same paradigm as Cubase/Digital Performer/Logic, that's why it seems better equipped than Live and Bitwig. IMO

100% agree- that is why I use more than one DAW I actually switched from a Cubase/Live comb to a Studio One/Bigwig combo

I still have both Cubase and Live currently- those cheap X grade deals made having them all relatively inexpensive compared to a couple of Eurorack modules and for me its worth keeping them in case they ever get a killer update and for the bundled content and a few USP's that they still have (+ I work with other people and its nice to be flexible...still far more Live users than Bitwig, especially with the younger/DJ crowd)

[zerocrossing]

I honestly don't understand why they put so much time and energy in to making more plugins every update. It's marketable I guess but I wish they focused solely on workflow improvements for once.

Well, it's their choice but Bitwig is so close to being my preferred DAW over Ableton.

I left Live when it was clear that they’d never support MPE or polyphonic aftertouch (not interested in work-a-rounds) but I do miss some of it. Especially how easy it was to work with MIDI clips. Bitwig’s implementation is really clumsy in comparison.

[apoclypse]

I honestly don't understand why they put so much time and energy in to making more plugins every update. It's marketable I guess but I wish they focused solely on workflow improvements for once.

Well, it's their choice but Bitwig is so close to being my preferred DAW over Ableton.

I left Live when it was clear that they’d never support MPE or polyphonic aftertouch (not interested in work-a-rounds) but I do miss some of it. Especially how easy it was to work with MIDI clips. Bitwig’s implementation is really clumsy in comparison.

I think they will support MPE at some point. That being said the only reason I upgrade to Live recently is because of macOS compatibility.

Certainly Live has some things going for it. It's really snappy feeling, it's audio system is rock solid, not a hiccup during playback. I can trust that if I'm playing in a live situation I'm going to get what I put in. Bitwig still has audio hiccup issues so I can't really trust it in a live situation. Bitwig feels a little sluggish sometimes, it's not really but in-terms of design some things just feel slower to me, could be all the animations in the UI.

[jonljacobi]

At this point, I just assume that Bitwig has no interest in traditional recording or editing. And I think Live is going to have MPE in the not too distant future. At least in Ableton's version of not too distant, which seems to be about double everyone's else's version.

[xbitz]

They really do both, but indeed since v3 the balance seems to have shifted towards grid/devices slightly. But even then, look at EQ+ vs. EQ-5 - two things that always pissed me off with EQ-5 was that you need to enable/disable nodes with a separate button and that shelves & filters were not available except for 1st and 5th node. EQ+ solves both (+ adds lots more) and as a result it makes you work faster. Unless you don't use native devices at all and instead load Pro-Q3 or whatever, then sure.

But for me Bitwig - a bit like Reason - excels when using it standalone or with a limited number of plugins. Maybe that's why they focus on native stuff, to make it really self-sustained?

It could be argued that a really good EQ is fundamental to music production and there are a lot of advantages having it built in the DAW (like seeing the graphic display in mixer and being able to alter the EQ from the inspector for each track without having to leave the mixer view or open another window). Its not like they added something no one needs or asked for like a wavetable synth

Personally, Bitwig is far ahead of Live for me now in most workflow aspects (I am on Live suite 10.1)
I find it quite hard to use Live now after getting used to unlimited smart collections (not just 7!!) more mappable keys, the pop up smart browser (not back to 'search' all the time in Lives browser). Modulation and expression is far easier to apply than with the max tools, CV is better integrated (important to me) as is MPE and (the killer feature) you can edit audio in clips without having to switch to an arranger view! This was pretty much the reason I switched from 9 to Bitwig many years back (although I still always used Live as well as I like the packs and controller integration). Based on most feedback (even on the Live forums) Bitwig is better with CPU as well (it seems that way to me but I have not used any scientific method!).

Live has the groovepool, midi capture, better drawing tools for automation, audio to midi and better hardware support, MAX (as a pro and a con!) but almost everything else I prefer Bitwig now and it just keeps getting better 'faster'. (and the new Live Beta .17 adds nothing really new which was disappointing ). I really hope Live gets a big update soon (a 10.5) with some really cool and original stuff...I have a foot in both camps!

Horses for courses, but overall I think Bitwig have added hundreds of small new workflow features with 3, 3.1 and 3.1...too many to list... and it was great to see that at least half a dozen of the new ones in 3.2 came directly from KVR Feedback

Yeah, you both have fair points and I don't wanna come off as too much of a killjoy since Bitwig is doing great things. I just think there is a lot of untapped potential in the actual songwriting part of the program because it's already close to perfect for sound designing and tinkering.

I only miss some Captain Chords like chord-progression builder but the latest Captain Chord can be used very nicely already, quite fun putting modulated chained/nested note fx selector devices after it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy9U2XD7-pQ
with different effects like note-echoes etc. who needs piano roll anyway

[wintoid]

always worth to mention that the Bitwig team has 4 developers

Seriously? That is amazing!

[pdxindy]

always worth to mention that the Bitwig team has 4 developers

Seriously? That is amazing!

It is 5 developers at this point...

Bitwig is unmatched for expressive performance. I know some people want Bitwig to focus more on workflow, but the performance improvements in 3.1 and 3.2 have become essential for me. For example, Bitwig's recently updated Arpeggiator does stuff that no 3rd party Arp does. The Instrument Selector device (and FX and Note Selector devices) are fantastic for doing actual playing of music in realtime. That is a 'traditional' tool and a place where Bitwig is surpassing the old stalwarts.

[wintoid]

always worth to mention that the Bitwig team has 4 developers

Seriously? That is amazing!

It is 5 developers at this point...

Bitwig is unmatched for expressive performance. I know some people want Bitwig to focus more on workflow, but the performance improvements in 3.1 and 3.2 have become essential for me. For example, Bitwig's recently updated Arpeggiator does stuff that no 3rd party Arp does. The Instrument Selector device (and FX and Note Selector devices) are fantastic for doing actual playing of music in realtime. That is a 'traditional' tool and a place where Bitwig is surpassing the old stalwarts.

I've been playing with synths and midi since about 1981, and stopped doing this in the early 2000s when my first child was born. I've come back to this world and discovered Reaper, then Live and now Bitwig. These packages are mindblowing, and so far beyond what I was using before. The closest I got was a thing called Bars And Pipes on the Amiga in the mid 1990s probably.

Anyway, the thing about Bitwig is it makes me really want to play with stuff, which can only be a good thing. It seems really stable and just a lot of fun, so it's seriously impressive that the dev team is so small. Amazing!

[antic604]

I've been playing with synths and midi since about 1981, and stopped doing this in the early 2000s when my first child was born. I've come back to this world and discovered Reaper, then Live and now Bitwig. These packages are mindblowing, and so far beyond what I was using before.

*high five*

Started around 1987/88 on Atari 800XL, then Amiga and then PC. Stopped in 2000. Came back in 2017/18. Now mostly on Bitwig, too