Whats the difference between clippers and saturators?

[kenny saunders]

Is it simply that clippers only work on the peaks and leave the rest of the signal untouched, whereas a saturator will effect the entire signal irrespective of level?

Also dodes FF Saturn 2 do clipping?

[Ah_Dziz]

The transfer function used is the main difference. In a well modeled saturator, the transfer function is program dependent and therefor a more complex model. In a clipper you go from a flat ceiling at the top of a linear function (hard clipping) which will just make any sample at or above that ceiling output at the value of the ceiling, to a curve leading up to the ceiling (soft clipping) which gives a smoother transition from linear to clipped so that new harmonics are generated more and more as the signal approaches the ceiling. Both have their uses.

[jochicago]

Trying to put it shortly:

Clipper: sharp blade that cuts only the peaks when they hit the ceiling

Soft clipper: like a clipper but it starts cutting a touch earlier to make for a more "rounder" softer clip, but still only at the ceiling

Drive/saturation: applies an adjustment to a larger range of the signal, but still does more of its work at the top close to the ceiling

Distortion: drive/saturation applied hard by pushing the signal towards the ceiling, thus causing extreme saturation that sounds distorted

[kenny saunders]

Trying to put it shortly:

Clipper: sharp blade that cuts only the peaks when they hit the ceiling

Soft clipper: like a clipper but it starts cutting a touch earlier to make for a more "rounder" softer clip, but still only at the ceiling

Drive/saturation: applies an adjustment to a larger range of the signal, but still does more of its work at the top close to the ceiling

Distortion: drive/saturation applied hard by pushing the signal towards the ceiling, thus causing extreme saturation that sounds distorted

The transfer function used is the main difference. In a well modeled saturator, the transfer function is program dependent and therefor a more complex model. In a clipper you go from a flat ceiling at the top of a linear function (hard clipping) which will just make any sample at or above that ceiling output at the value of the ceiling, to a curve leading up to the ceiling (soft clipping) which gives a smoother transition from linear to clipped so that new harmonics are generated more and more as the signal approaches the ceiling. Both have their uses.

Thanks. I've seen in various threads that people say they use PA SPL Iron, and also Fabfilter as a clipper, don;t see how thats possible but hey.

[jochicago]

I wouldn't mind to elaborate but I'm not familiar with either of those tools.

However, I do use a limiter at times to operate only on the last db or so at the ceiling. I use a limiter instead of a clipper because I'm trying for a more transparent sound (but this is my interpretation, other people might prefer and actual clipper for the same task).

So from that perspective, you can think of a limiter that has a threshold set to around -1db as basically another take on a soft clipper, because you are telling the thing to only operate near the ceiling, and you are using its clever algorithm to chop the peaks a bit more elegantly instead of a using a hard clipper that would act as a sharp blade.

[Teksonik]

Simple, one makes your audio sound like crap and the other makes your audio sound like crap.

[ramseysounds]

In my experience, I'll only ever use a limiter when 'mastering' a track to get volume up and catch any peaks. If you need to use a limiter on a mix channel, you need to look at gain staging instead.

[Ploki]

saturn2 has an always on soft clipper on the output stage iirc

[Mushy Mushy]

Let's say you're 7ft talk and trying to fit through a 6ft doorway. You can either chop your head off (clipping) or you can squash the top of your head (saturation), both of which result in deformation.

The third and cleanest method is simply to duck and/or bend your knees (compression).

[Michey]

IIRC, VladG from TDR said that while Clippers act on the part of the waveform that is from the knee up, saturation act on ALL the signal.

Simple, one makes your audio sound like crap and the other makes your audio sound like crap

So, according to you, almost each and every prominent mix technician in the world makes his mixes sound like crap ? because they clip the converters, y'know....

[kenny saunders]

IIRC, VladG from TDR said that while Clippers act on the part of the waveform that is from the knee up, saturation act on ALL the signal.

Simple, one makes your audio sound like crap and the other makes your audio sound like crap

So, according to you, almost each and every prominent mix technician in the world makes his mixes sound like crap ? because they clip the converters, y'know....

Yeah that was my understanding, although there are subtle differences in the type of distortion I think.

I think that guy you responded to thinks everyone rams 10db through a clipper on the master of a classical music mix or something. where I'm just looking to take 1 or 2 db off on certain channels to make it easier for any following compressor or limiter. There's a good post on gearslutz going in depth about the best clippers, and this is two examples of use cases:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... stcount=63

It's fantastic for mixing, you can control the levels of tracks and busses more accurately.

Clipping a loud kick for example can remove peaks that are essentially inaudible to the ear (negligible difference via A/B) but hit the compressor hard, meaning you end up with more headroom for your mix (loudness without crapness). Invisible clipping (StandardCLIP hard clipping is perfect for this - great UI and sound) is essential for me on kicks, snares, 808s, claps or anything transient heavy.

A little can go a long way. You'll need less mixbus compression, and the compression you do use will be more even and controlled due to less 'pokey' transients hitting it.

Clipping before a limiter (1-2dB max) is also very handy

or

If you have baselines in your music you can use a clipped version of it in parallel,
to give the low end more solid character. Remember to hi-cut the clipped signal, narrow it to the low end only.
The key here, is the right blending between the two. When it starts to get obvious, put it a bit back until you "feel it" more that you can listen to it.

Another good use is in percussive stuff, at moderate level, can bring out the instrument's character. 909 toms come to my mind, for example.

Basically clipping in parallel is more useful to me than apply it direct to the source. More control...

Of course, some music styles benefit from direct abusing, so it's a matter of taste really.

[Michey]

Yeah that was my understanding, although there are subtle differences in the type of distortion I think.

Yea, I know. although sometimes the differences are VERY subtle, one can't choose one over the other.

The key here is to use your ears. if the material consists of brutal transients, one might drill WAY deeper than 1-2dBs - and get away with it.

A great way to test saturation/clippers is to sandwich 'em between two blue-cat gain (one feeding gain, one for the exacts gain in negative). Airwindows are prime candidates for this kind of thing. try it with Spiral...

[Googly Smythe]

It would never have occurred to me to use a saturator to control clipping. You live and learn.

[Good Times]

Is there a clipper with a delta mode (i.e. where you can listen to what has been cut)?
Might be handy and show that much more clipping than one thinks is possible without altering the sound in obvious ways.

[itanever]

Is there a clipper with a delta mode (i.e. where you can listen to what has been cut)?
Might be handy and show that much more clipping than one thinks is possible without altering the sound in obvious ways.

Airwindows ADClip does this, just switch it to Clip Only mode.