What is your list of top 3 fat analog-like processing vsts for synths (electronic music)?

[matteoluigiodaro]

Hello guys,

I trust those of you here with years of experience on producing and mastering.

I've been producing for almost a year and there's an area with is very frustrating for me, because as I use vst instruments synths mainly (Diva, Repro, Zebra, Arturia, Serum, UVI Falcon, D16 Lush, Omnisphere, Thorn, Spire, Pigments, Phase Plant, Kontakt librairies, ANA 2, Tal Juno to name a few) I struggle to process them in such an analog way that it would sound almost professional, warm, sharp and thick already, like the sample packs of high-end studios (mainly based in Berlin) for music I do which is electronic music. Stuff like analog tape, echo, delay, chorus, phasers, moisturizers effect units, ssl consoles, etc. do.

This crispiness, sharpness and rich/fatness processing on synth instruments is very important because I found these vsts although good for designing sound, missing that little spark that makes all the difference between a dull synth and fat one (especially those fat poly synths with built-in effects like Moog Mini & Sub 37, Dave Smith Sequential OB6 or Prophet 6, Jupiter 8, Arturia Matrixbrute, ARP Odyssey, etc.). I know it shouldn't sound too processed until the stage of mastering, but still I would like to make it better than they sound already (too digital and thin for now).

I have tried the following but I'm not too happy (maybe I need more practice):

- Audiothing Outerspace: Space Echo is very important to bring immediately a synth or bassline to life but I find it nowhere near the Roland RE-201 used by so many electronic music producers, what's your thoughts?
- Soundtoys: mainly Decapitator a bit everywhere it brings some nice saturation indeed. Echoboy & Echoboy JR are also nice to bring creative delays. Don't use much the others, like Radiator etc I don't think they're making the source sounds better. Crystalliser is a bit too cheesy too my taste, it's probably good for some genres, electric guitars or break buildups but not the main lead synths of a track in electronic music.
- Arturia FX suite like Delay TAPE: fun but nothing near analog quality right?
- Arturia compressors: I see everywhere they're good, speaking of compressors which brands are the best?
- Softube: I don't use it yet, it looks very impressive. Do you recommend them for treating sounds? Like Weiss, Chandler, Tube-Tech collections? Also Tape, Drawmer, Fix Flanger and Doubler, Console SSL, TSAR Reverb, Spring Reverb, Tube Delay, Saturation, Fet compressors?
- Fabfilter: obviously using the EQ but Saturn as multiband saturator is widely used by producers too, your toughts?
- Slate: I have had the SSL suite including VTM & VCC 2 for a few months, sounds good I think but a lot of debates about it on forums lol. Your verdict as to does it compare to analog gear? xD Eiosis Air EQ, D16 Repeater Delay, Lustrous Plates, VerbSuite & LiquidSonics Seventh Heaven Professional looks some pretty serious shit as well.
- Plugin Alliance/Unfiltered: widely used by my producer friends, I have the suite except the bx_console N, ssl console 4000 E / 9000 J. Never used any of them, do you recommend any? Also Byome, Triad, Sandman, Sandman Pro?
- Eventide: I only have an old version of Blackhole which I use on return channel, sounds good I think, is it any different from physical pedal? Their stuff looks great.
- Waves J37: a very established producer told me to use it everywhere on synths but to be honest I don't find it's doing anything to my leads lol, just making it worse (I generally find Waves too digital). How about Waves H-Delay, H-Reverb?
- Valhalla are nice overall to bring a big stereo image with reverb applied individually on synths (and drums) also on return channel to glue them together. But that said they're not making the synths sound better.
- D16 Syntorus as a creative Chorus-like tool I like it a lot but I don't think it's near analog, not very sharp. D16 Repeater also is nice I think (still haven't installed it). Decimort a bit too extreme, more for design.
- Blue Cat Audio free Chorus: sounds very cheap like a nasal voice, too much movement, still can't find a decent Chorus
- Tal free Chorus: I liked it at first until I realised how cheap it sounds, too digital and generic.
- Kilohearts plugins: are they any good for processing synths? Sounds cheap.
- OTT: still a big mystery for me, just looks like a Multiband preset destroying your signal, very generic.
- Ableton stock audio effects plugins like Corpus & Erosion (mainly for drums), Tube, Saturator, Overdrive, Resonator, Cabinet, Amp, Drum Buss... good to tweak sounds and make them sharper but nothing near analog I think?
- NI Guitar Rig: fun to transform a synth as I wanted to sound them like an electrical guitar-ish, but cheap, after processing sounds very thin and unusable.
- NI Replika? Never used but heard of it.
- Acustica: I've tried the demos (Taupe, Titanium, El Rey, Audio Lemon, etc.) sounds good but a bit weird, and GUI sucks.
- Vienna Suite Pro: looks like a great audio process plugin, a bit expensive unless you tell me to buy it xD
- DMG audio, Melda, Nugen, Serum MFX, and probably a lot more I forgot about...
- Audiority Deleight, Polaris, Xenoverb?
- u He Colour Copy?
- UVI Relayer?
- Izotope Neutron?
- UAudio plugins? EP-34 Tape Echo? Audio 1176 Classic Limiter Plug-In Collection? EMT 140 Classic Plate Reverberator Plug-In?
- Soundtheory Gullfoss intelligent EQ to improve the mix on master?

If you had to list only 3 of your go-to processing plugins you always use for electronic production, what are they?

If there's none that match a professional level, although I don't have so much to spend I'm ready to invest a bit in pedals and hardware stuff to get "that sound" already done easily: stuff like Strymon Big Sky, Eventide, Empress, Boss pedals... Ekdahl Moisturizer Spring Reverb... anything else?

In terms of gear I only have a Minibrute 2S and Roland SE 02 to get me started and regarding the sound interface I have a solid Audient which I'm happy with, I don't think it's the issue. Unless you tell me UAudio card + suite would make a difference.

Thanks!!

[AnX]

moisturizers effect units

no idea what they are

[Distorted Horizon]

I'd be interested to hear your tracks and decide by myself if they lack something.

[Kwysix]

I think you're lost into some sort of gear acquisition syndrome, no new tool will improve your productions, most of those you've quoted are really high end and you can achieve professional production with those. The issue is that, I believe, you don't spend enough time trying to master them to get the sound you want.

The good thing about hardware FX Pedals and hardware unit is that they are limited, and that's why some people achieve top end results with those. + your post is mixing compressors, saturation, delay plugins, etc... Furthermore, you mixed different types of unit (Colour Copy is a BBD style Delay, Relayer is a multitap digital unit for exemple).

So here is my bit of advice, focus on a small list of plugins and try to get your own sound with them.

As an exemple, here is the pretty small list of the stuff I use :

EQ : Arturia Pre Amps, Fabfilter ProQ

Comp : Fabfilter ProC, Arturia 3 Comps, NI Solid Comp (got this for free)

Reverb :Fabfilter Pro-R (might get Verberate 2 after testing the demo for a few weeks)

Delay : Replika XT Valhalla Delay (would have been suitable alone, but I use a hardware controller and ValhallaDSP has made poor efforts for MIDI integration), Izotope DDLY (got it for free)

Saturation Fabfilter Saturn 2, Arturia Pre Amps, XLN RC20

Extra FX : Molekular

That's it, 12 VST, and that's way more than what you need to achieve great sound.
Also, focus on knowing your VST Synth, I also got a really small list of VST Synth I use : Diva, Pigments and my hardware Novation Peak. Really dive into details, focusi on subtle modulations, slight detuning, etc...

One last thing : if you got cracked plugins, get rid of them and start buying, you'll spend more time learning your tools. If you buy your plugins, try to get 1 or 2 for each categories and stop buying, you'll spend more time learning your tools.

Oh and if you want to get convinced that built-in FX on hardware synth got nothing to do with the "analog sound", try this video :

[matteoluigiodaro]

I think you're lost into some sort of gear acquisition syndrome, no new tool will improve your productions, most of those you've quoted are really high end and you can achieve professional production with those. The issue is that, I believe, you don't spend enough time trying to master them to get the sound you want.

The good thing about hardware FX Pedals and hardware unit is that they are limited, and that's why some people achieve top end results with those. + your post is mixing compressors, saturation, delay plugins, etc... Furthermore, you mixed different types of unit (Colour Copy is a BBD style Delay, Relayer is a multitap digital unit for exemple).

So here is my bit of advice, focus on a small list of plugins and try to get your own sound with them.

As an exemple, here is the pretty small list of the stuff I use :

EQ : Arturia Pre Amps, Fabfilter ProQ

Comp : Fabfilter ProC, Arturia 3 Comps, NI Solid Comp (got this for free)

Reverb :Fabfilter Pro-R (might get Verberate 2 after testing the demo for a few weeks)

Delay : Replika XT Valhalla Delay (would have been suitable alone, but I use a hardware controller and ValhallaDSP has made poor efforts for MIDI integration), Izotope DDLY (got it for free)

Saturation Fabfilter Saturn 2, Arturia Pre Amps, XLN RC20

Extra FX : Molekular

That's it, 12 VST, and that's way more than what you need to achieve great sound.
Also, focus on knowing your VST Synth, I also got a really small list of VST Synth I use : Diva, Pigments and my hardware Novation Peak. Really dive into details, focusi on subtle modulations, slight detuning, etc...

One last thing : if you got cracked plugins, get rid of them and start buying, you'll spend more time learning your tools. If you buy your plugins, try to get 1 or 2 for each categories and stop buying, you'll spend more time learning your tools.

Oh and if you want to get convinced that built-in FX on hardware synth got nothing to do with the "analog sound", try this video :

Oh man just what I needed thank you so much! Yes I needed someone with experience to tell me what to do and limit myself xD This will do just fine for a first EP - will post back here when the demos are near completion for further feedback )

Yeah small detune, modulation, lots of automation are key to form interesting variations indeed, I'm getting on this right now.

I'm just keeping Soundtoys with your list because actually I just managed to create some dope sounds with it from samples, now will try to master and improve myself on using on synths too.

Bonus question: are "pre-amps" really necessary on your external synths, it doesn't distort the signal too much from the actual sound? I always thought they were more for guitars and stuff, not so much electronic music.

Thanks a lot again.

PS : yeah I watched the video from Swam before (nice presets btw I'm using them) and there's not much difference indeed, so I must be the one who hasn't tried enough to get the right sound I want. I still have the assumption that hardware is more direct and you save time on building your desired outcome, because Diva with a Midi controller for instance doesn't feel just like the same, you have to map parameters for each plugin etc.

[Kwysix]

Glad this could help.

Considering your extra question regarding PreAmps, first I think you are confused between amps (for guitar and bass) and PreAmps (originally found on mix desk to plug instruments), second they are absolutly not needed. All the fuss about recreating a recording chain (Tape, Console PreAmp, Analog EQ, Analog Comp, etc...) is just... fuss. You can achieve the same results with 1 saturation plugin (Fabfilter Saturn is the best bang for your bucks in that regard, with Decapitator). I just use the Arturia stuff because of the EQ's, as they are really easier to map to a midi controller than some more complex EQ like Fabfilter Pro-Q, sometimes I use the gain saturation but I could achieve the exact same result with Fabfilter Saturn.

From what I wrote before, you could just go with the whole Fabfilter plugins suite + some delay (Echoboy, Valhalla, Replika, Comeback Kid are all good alternatives, some other work too).

[recursive one]

Channel fader anad a DAW stock eq

I mean the more I learn about mixing the less I believe in various magic staurators, fatteners and sound goodizers. Take lead sound from Diva. Nah, very ordinalry sound. But then place it into the mix, balance against the kick and the bass, remove the conflicting frequencies and boost the "character" ones (you don't need a magic colouring eq ofr that, the DAW stock one will do), add a delay and a reverb - bam, you have a huge and powerful sound

Ofc, all these analog modelled processor exist for a reason, they do add some interesting colour and texture but they are not what turns a weak and thin mix into a fat and powerful one.

Regarding teh sample packs, I don't use these myself but I believe the sounds in there might have been processed to sound impressive in isolation - in order to sell the pack, not because this was actaully needed to make a great mix of them (it's impossible for the sample pack creator to know what will be your mix and what is needed for it).

[thecontrolcentre]

fat poly synths with built-in effects like Moog Mini & Sub 37, Dave Smith Sequential OB6 or Prophet 6, Jupiter 8, Arturia Matrixbrute, ARP Odyssey, etc.).

What built-in effects do you imagine a SUB37 or Jupiter 8 have?

[matteoluigiodaro]

fat poly synths with built-in effects like Moog Mini & Sub 37, Dave Smith Sequential OB6 or Prophet 6, Jupiter 8, Arturia Matrixbrute, ARP Odyssey, etc.).

What built-in effects do you imagine a SUB37 or Jupiter 8 have?

Well the combination of all these beautiful knobs and everytime I hear a demo or recognise a SUB 37 bassline/lead in a melodic techno track makes me feel shit with my modest 450 plugins xD After 8 months of trying everything out I can't think that vsts are the same as analog, the latter are def more juicy, beefy, with more resonance, accents, sharpness, and thickness. Same goes with Jupiter Prophet OB6 etc., I know you guys and the demos on Youtube tend to demonstrate they're the same but seriously they kill the likes of Repro by such a long shot, you can instantly tell from the top producers and I know they use that analog gear.

That said, I learnt my lesson and I'm doing my thing small time, exactly like the person said above.

[matteoluigiodaro]

Channel fader anad a DAW stock eq

I mean the more I learn about mixing the less I believe in various magic staurators, fatteners and sound goodizers. Take lead sound from Diva. Nah, very ordinalry sound. But then place it into the mix, balance against the kick and the bass, remove the conflicting frequencies and boost the "character" ones (you don't need a magic colouring eq ofr that, the DAW stock one will do), add a delay and a reverb - bam, you have a huge and powerful sound

Ofc, all these analog modelled processor exist for a reason, they do add some interesting colour and texture but they are not what turns a weak and thin mix into a fat and powerful one.

Regarding teh sample packs, I don't use these myself but I believe the sounds in there might have been processed to sound impressive in isolation - in order to sell the pack, not because this was actaully needed to make a great mix of them (it's impossible for the sample pack creator to know what will be your mix and what is needed for it).

Omg absolutely, I couldn't describe better it's the same exact words and process I outlined today as a result of my learning haha, and in doing so now I'm able to finally place a lead with the proper steps you mentioned. Yeah I'm against samples too in general, just like presets (they killed my creativity the first months) but just like presets because they saved me times I happened to use a few. That said now that I'm advancing I'm taking the time for sound design and learning patch building from scratch for each synth. It's only when you master those (and obviously EQing, mixing, slight compression and not so much colouring I agree with you it's what killed me too) that you can finally moving toward clean and naturally balanced mixes.

[matteoluigiodaro]

Glad this could help.

Considering your extra question regarding PreAmps, first I think you are confused between amps (for guitar and bass) and PreAmps (originally found on mix desk to plug instruments), second they are absolutly not needed. All the fuss about recreating a recording chain (Tape, Console PreAmp, Analog EQ, Analog Comp, etc...) is just... fuss. You can achieve the same results with 1 saturation plugin (Fabfilter Saturn is the best bang for your bucks in that regard, with Decapitator). I just use the Arturia stuff because of the EQ's, as they are really easier to map to a midi controller than some more complex EQ like Fabfilter Pro-Q, sometimes I use the gain saturation but I could achieve the exact same result with Fabfilter Saturn.

From what I wrote before, you could just go with the whole Fabfilter plugins suite + some delay (Echoboy, Valhalla, Replika, Comeback Kid are all good alternatives, some other work too).

Thanks you for the additional explanation. Yes perfect so I'll keep limiting to those.

Speaking of pre/amp Softube just announced as we speak Amp Room - https://www.softube.com/products/amp-room - is this of any interest for my purpose (like beefing up basslines for instance), or not? I guess not if I follow your explanation.

• The pro audio guitar and bass platform: designed for the producer, sounds exactly like real amps in high-end studios miked up with professional gear

• Load studio FX from Softube, Tube-Tech, and Trident, amps and cabs from Marshall, and more

• Mix and match modules to create complex patches and shape the sound you want

Cheers.

[Kwysix]

Well once again, these are guitar amps, not preamps. I know it sounds quite similar, and even if the original purpose of both was indeed similar, they are completly different stuff.

Preamps are used to allow something like a microphone or a plugged instrument to reach an adequate gain to make sure they can be processed by a mixing desk / a digital audio workstation. You'll find preamps on your audio interfacr (Scarlett Focusrite, M-audio whatever, Apollo Twin, etc...)

Guitar amps are also used to allow you to hear the sound of... Well, a guitar, but they have been designed to allow some creative processing of the guitar sound (mostly distortion, bass or treble enhancement, etc...) The softube Amp Room is a guitar amp simulation. If you're not going to plug any guitar, it's completly useless (well you could use some of their reverb and distortion stuff but that would be overkill and a total misuse of the plugin).

Once again, you can learn your tools, even the one in your daw first. Then as your ears get better and you acquire more sensitivity, you might want to achieve one particular result, and you will exactly know if this or this plugin might add just that little spice you specificaly want or workflow enhancement that you need. The rest is just some marketing bullshit. There is no shortcut, no magical analog plugin (mostly everything is about saturation and ajustements in this field and can be achieved with your daw stock plugins), only hardwork, fine tuning and good knowledge.

[JO512]

This crispiness, sharpness and rich/fatness processing

This immediately makes me think of carefully applied distortion/saturation (maybe applied specificially to certain bands), limiters with soft-clipping, certain approaches to multi-band compression, and so on. I like overdriving Satin's output and turning on soft-clipping and pushing synths into that. Makes them sound pretty fat and crispy! Just getting things louder and bit more saturated often helps a lot. One can go too far here though!

You can even get some extra sharpness/crispiness by adding a bit of a positive formant shift maybe partially wet, using something like Reaper's included ReaPitch. It makes the sound "smile" a bit more. Don't go too far with this! And be aware that it increases latency, so don't turn it on while playing.

[kvotchin]

With that amount of spending (i.e., a number of decent plugins), you might also consider a bit of outboard gear (used, perhaps).

Doesn’t have to be top of the line, obviously. But sometimes, yeah, a bit of actual analog treatment can be just the thing.

But in the end, whatever works for you. Personally, I quite like FabFilter for a couple of things, far as paid software goes.

[risome]

Saturation +EQ and Compression