I need something for doing mixing now. I'm thinking that Cubase Elements 10.5 should do it, at £85. I don't have any complaints about Steinberg Wavelab Elements. I don't want something for mixing which natively "colours" the sound much. Cubase Elements has upto 48 stereo tracks of audio, should be enough for me. What do you think? Is anything i've overlooked about Cubase Elements? I already have plugs to cover mixing duties. I just need volume, pan, a decent workflow, mute/solo buttons, and decent sound quality.
I tried to get the demo of Harrison Mixbus 6 earlier, but Windows Defender Smartscreen blocked it as potentially dangerous. I've emailed Harrison support. I read about Harrison Mixbus in a KVR thread about "best DAW for mixing".
Reaper and Bitwig.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2990 posts since 31 Jan, 2020
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- KVRAF
- 26937 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Just use Bitwig then...Spring Goose wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:12 pmI already have plugs to cover mixing duties. I just need volume, pan, a decent workflow, mute/solo buttons, and decent sound quality.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2990 posts since 31 Jan, 2020
I noticed that Bitwig has a "coloured" sound. I like to bounce all my tracks to audio for mixing. I didn't want to get the "coloured" sound twice. Thanks for your reply.pdxindy wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:21 pmJust use Bitwig then...Spring Goose wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:12 pmI already have plugs to cover mixing duties. I just need volume, pan, a decent workflow, mute/solo buttons, and decent sound quality.
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- KVRAF
- 9544 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
The only DAW that colors sound intentionally is Harrison Mixbus. Claiming that a DAW colors is a myth. If you base your decisions on such claims, get monster cables first for 10 times the price of a fully featured DAW...
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2990 posts since 31 Jan, 2020
What's "monster cables"?Tj Shredder wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:42 pm The only DAW that colors sound intentionally is Harrison Mixbus. Claiming that a DAW colors is a myth. If you base your decisions on such claims, get monster cables first for 10 times the price of a fully featured DAW...
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2990 posts since 31 Jan, 2020
Funny i should mention that then!Tj Shredder wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:42 pm The only DAW that colors sound intentionally is Harrison Mixbus.
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- KVRAF
- 9544 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
They advertise it as such. They try to make it sound like an analog console. If you bypass all their channel strips it will not color either...Spring Goose wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:30 pmFunny i should mention that then!Tj Shredder wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:42 pm The only DAW that colors sound intentionally is Harrison Mixbus.
Btw. Monster cables and golden digital connections are a market for HiFi enthusiast with too much money but who are too greedy to afford proper education and scientific thinking...
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2990 posts since 31 Jan, 2020
Reason is an emulation of an SSL desk, ain't it?Tj Shredder wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:36 pmThey advertise it as such. They try to make it sound like an analog console. If you bypass all their channel strips it will not color either...Spring Goose wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:30 pmFunny i should mention that then!Tj Shredder wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:42 pm The only DAW that colors sound intentionally is Harrison Mixbus.
Btw. Monster cables and golden digital connections are a market for HiFi enthusiast with too much money but who are too greedy to afford proper education and scientific thinking...
cheers for explaining monster cables
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- KVRian
- 997 posts since 27 Apr, 2005
only if you turn on the mixer EQ or comp/gate modules. the sound passing through reason's mixer itself is uncolored and clean, as has been borne out many many times in strict testing. Just like Bitwig. or any of the others.Spring Goose wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:18 pmReason is an emulation of an SSL desk, ain't it?Tj Shredder wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 3:36 pmThey advertise it as such. They try to make it sound like an analog console. If you bypass all their channel strips it will not color either...Spring Goose wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:30 pmFunny i should mention that then!Tj Shredder wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:42 pm The only DAW that colors sound intentionally is Harrison Mixbus.
Btw. Monster cables and golden digital connections are a market for HiFi enthusiast with too much money but who are too greedy to afford proper education and scientific thinking...
cheers for explaining monster cables
also there is some benefit to using well made cables in purely analog signal paths (leaving aside the monster brand specifically, or whether the benefit outweighs the cost.) but digital is digital, if it works it's good.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2990 posts since 31 Jan, 2020
That's weird because i thought Bitwig has a different sound to Reason but i guess it was some psycho-effect of my brain tricking me!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2990 posts since 31 Jan, 2020
I hope i wasn't imagining the Waves Kramer Tape at the end of Duran Duran - The Universe Alone.
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- KVRAF
- 9544 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space
The music you do in Reason will sound different than the music you do in Bitwig. These are different tools which inspire you into different directions. Only if you’d layout a piece on paper, and then by using the exact same plugins, you would get similar results. Fortunately creative workflows are different. Personally Bitwig is the most inspiring DAW I came across, absolutely on par with Max/MSP...Spring Goose wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:03 pm That's weird because i thought Bitwig has a different sound to Reason but i guess it was some psycho-effect of my brain tricking me!
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- KVRist
- 431 posts since 9 Nov, 2018 from Colorado
The only DAW I've ever spent significant time with is Reaper. But because of all the raving I see about Bitwig, I've been trying out the demo a little. I feel extremely limited in it. Perhaps it is that I just don't know how to do all the things I know how to do in Reaper. But it really seems like in Bitwig, I am constrained to just the essentials. Am I mistaken?
One feature in Bitwig I really like that I haven't seen elsewhere is the ability to do "micropitch expressions" to bend multiple notes in different directions in MPE-capable synths. To be able to bend the notes to exact notes with no fuss is awesome! I wish Reaper could do that. There are ways to get the same basic result, but they are a bit complicated and clunky. And that complication acts as a disincentive to even mess with it. I even have to consult my notes to remember the method I found to do it! I've asked for the ability to snap vertically in automation envelopes to a configurable grid, to allow easy bending up or down to exact notes, but I don't see any evidence that any devs pay any attention. I don't understand why such a feature is so hard to find in DAWs. It should be commonplace. The MPE micropitch expression feature in Bitwig accomplishes this in a different way that also allows one to bend multiple notes in different directions. Wonderful! In Reaper, as far as I know, I'd have to put multiple instances of my synth on different tracks to do that. And then I have to use some special tricks to get the bends to arrive at exact notes. Painful! But at least with that method, it can be done with any synth, not just the MPE-capable ones.
Does anyone know if any other DAW has a feature like this, allowing easy editing of MPE bends in the piano roll?
I also like the many modulation options in Bitwig. Very nice! Some of these I'd have to do in Reaper with a more resource-hungry plugin like Reaktor.
But overall, it feels so limiting!
One feature in Bitwig I really like that I haven't seen elsewhere is the ability to do "micropitch expressions" to bend multiple notes in different directions in MPE-capable synths. To be able to bend the notes to exact notes with no fuss is awesome! I wish Reaper could do that. There are ways to get the same basic result, but they are a bit complicated and clunky. And that complication acts as a disincentive to even mess with it. I even have to consult my notes to remember the method I found to do it! I've asked for the ability to snap vertically in automation envelopes to a configurable grid, to allow easy bending up or down to exact notes, but I don't see any evidence that any devs pay any attention. I don't understand why such a feature is so hard to find in DAWs. It should be commonplace. The MPE micropitch expression feature in Bitwig accomplishes this in a different way that also allows one to bend multiple notes in different directions. Wonderful! In Reaper, as far as I know, I'd have to put multiple instances of my synth on different tracks to do that. And then I have to use some special tricks to get the bends to arrive at exact notes. Painful! But at least with that method, it can be done with any synth, not just the MPE-capable ones.
Does anyone know if any other DAW has a feature like this, allowing easy editing of MPE bends in the piano roll?
I also like the many modulation options in Bitwig. Very nice! Some of these I'd have to do in Reaper with a more resource-hungry plugin like Reaktor.
But overall, it feels so limiting!
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- KVRAF
- 2989 posts since 5 Nov, 2014
No you are not mistaken, but what it does it does good, I find Bitwig's workflow very straightforward and intuitive, sure it's missing some bells&whistles that older DAW's have, it's young DAW, but it will mature nicely along the way, they are adding useful stuff all the time, I had no issues switching from Logic completely, there will be always something missing, but it's nothing major I couldn't put up for time being.JO512 wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:42 pm But it really seems like in Bitwig, I am constrained to just the essentials. Am I mistaken?