Is Android Dead?
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- KVRAF
- 6578 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from Ankara, Turkey
unfortunately,
there are 2 major issues on Android:
1. lack of low latency (Google claims they solved it, but don't know if that'd work on 100s of devices)
2. lack of infrastructure for plugins. On iOS we have inter-app audio, AUv3 plugins. What do we have on Android? NOTHING.
I seriously don't understand why on earth Google doesn't invest in these area
Works at KV331 Audio
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2751 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY
HAHA!! Thanks Vurt...you rock dude....LOL!!
And thanks to all that took my op as seriously as I meant it. I'm pretty sure Google has not and likely will not properly address the latency and other audio setbacks. I'm not fooling myself into thinking 'droid will ever likely be a viable platform for full scale music production. It already does most of what I need it to.
As I said in my op all I really want is a very simple DAW for recording LIVE tracks. Latency, and lack of plugins are not so much of an issue for live tracking. I know this is possible because several of them already exist. I just don't like any of them. I shelled out for Evolution Mobile and uninstalled it the same day. Same thing with Fruity Loops which ,even on pc, is a toy IMHO, (sorry you Fruity guys...LOL!!) and N-Track.
I Presonus would port Capture or Steinberg would port Cubasis either would perfectly suit my needs.
Both have the ability to import their sessions into their bigger brothers Studio One and Cubase.
I know Steinie has pretty much been iOS only when it comes to mobile but Presonus has gotten their feet wet with their 'droid Studio One Remote control app which is the bomb....of course there's no audio involved there.
Oh well.....guess I'll have to stick with my current mini live multitrack rig. It's an ancient HP Mini laptop and Tascam US-800 interface. The whole thing fits in a tiny backpack. It's perfect for space challenged clubs or when stealth is required. I've got larger mobile rigs so I can do 8, 16, or 24 tracks but they're a wee bit more conspicuous.
Last edited by CapnLockheed on Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Banned
- 1792 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg
I wish I would be a 15 year old with an iPhone...
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- KVRer
- 18 posts since 19 Feb, 2020
There is an infrastructure build by N-Track software called AudioRoute Host with the aim of bringing app-to-app audio to the android world.kv331 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:37 pmunfortunately,
there are 2 major issues on Android:
1. lack of low latency (Google claims they solved it, but don't know if that'd work on 100s of devices)
2. lack of infrastructure for plugins. On iOS we have inter-app audio, AUv3 plugins. What do we have on Android? NOTHING.
I seriously don't understand why on earth Google doesn't invest in these area
Anyway, I think that android is not attractive so big companies don't port their well known software like they do for iOS.
For sure this android disliking doesn't help improving the audio performances like latency and midi implementation.
Anyway there are interesting application out there, like flmobile, G-Stomper, drc poliphonic synt, deplike guitar amp, and the new Hexen modular eurorack rack synthesizer (that is simply amazing).
On android 9 midi works like a charm and sometime I play something using my master keyboard connected to a lenovo P2.
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- KVRAF
- 6578 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from Ankara, Turkey
I'm talking about API/SDK/infrastructure developed by Google, not 3rd parties. So that it becomes a "Standard"effebal wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:56 am There is an infrastructure build by N-Track software called AudioRoute Host with the aim of bringing app-to-app audio to the android world.
Anyway, I think that android is not attractive so big companies don't port their well known software like they do for iOS.
For sure this android disliking doesn't help improving the audio performances like latency and midi implementation.
I guess we'll start Android development this summer, our "free" experiment with SynthMaster One taught us some lessons
Works at KV331 Audio
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
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- KVRist
- 482 posts since 10 Mar, 2013
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- KVRian
- 1090 posts since 24 Jul, 2018
I was thinking the same bcuz im a lifelong Android lover and it's a misconception really i was.just using my Akai mini to play the DRM synth on my phone, also been using the new Roland Zenbeats, FL Studio Mobile works fine on Android and also BandLab. Like those are 3 big time music software's. I record song memos with IK Medias EZ Voice. Really its on the developers i think they kno Apple users r more likely to waste money
- Banned
- 1792 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg
It still smells funny...
- KVRAF
- 11001 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere
If it was just an issue with developers being greedy it’s an enormous coincidence that all of them are doing it simultaneously and only with music apps...SoundPorn wrote: ↑Sat May 16, 2020 2:27 pm I was thinking the same bcuz im a lifelong Android lover and it's a misconception really i was.just using my Akai mini to play the DRM synth on my phone, also been using the new Roland Zenbeats, FL Studio Mobile works fine on Android and also BandLab. Like those are 3 big time music software's. I record song memos with IK Medias EZ Voice. Really its on the developers i think they kno Apple users r more likely to waste money
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Peter - IK Multimedia Peter - IK Multimedia https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=217907
- KVRAF
- 7863 posts since 20 Oct, 2009
It's not a matter of greed, it's not a matter of market share. It's a matter of one platform's realtime audio processing and supporting audio-related layers/tech being years ahead of the other. If we could have parity between iOS and Android music apps we would.
Attempts to create third party solutions (some of which we've helped work on with the manufacturers) have not been successful thus are now discontinued (like Samsung Professional Audio) and Google's "solution" is most definitely not universally operational, and frankly isn't technically yet a solution at all. That's not slamming them either, it is a challenging problem to be sure. However, they do seem to give the impression that the audio performance issue has been solved multiple times over the recent years which has become sort of a tease to both developers and users.
We do have some audio apps that people enjoy using on the platform, but we could have many more if more of the audio functionality caught up to iOS.
Attempts to create third party solutions (some of which we've helped work on with the manufacturers) have not been successful thus are now discontinued (like Samsung Professional Audio) and Google's "solution" is most definitely not universally operational, and frankly isn't technically yet a solution at all. That's not slamming them either, it is a challenging problem to be sure. However, they do seem to give the impression that the audio performance issue has been solved multiple times over the recent years which has become sort of a tease to both developers and users.
We do have some audio apps that people enjoy using on the platform, but we could have many more if more of the audio functionality caught up to iOS.
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- KVRAF
- 6578 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from Ankara, Turkey
Hi Peter, even if the solve latency issue to a certain degree (with their Oboe framework, etc), they are very reluctant in taking the lead for developing a plugin infrastructure. I met the guys at Google's audio team at NAMM, and exchanged emails with them a couple of times. When I asked about plugin infrastructure, they said that they have no plans for it and directed me to a third party frameworkPeter - IK Multimedia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:14 pm However, they do seem to give the impression that the audio performance issue has been solved multiple times over the recent years which has become sort of a tease to both developers and users.
We do have some audio apps that people enjoy using on the platform, but we could have many more if more of the audio functionality caught up to iOS.
Works at KV331 Audio
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
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- KVRAF
- 6578 posts since 14 Nov, 2006 from Ankara, Turkey
I hope Steinberg takes the lead on that front and bring VST to Android.kv331 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:00 amHi Peter, even if the solve latency issue to a certain degree (with their Oboe framework, etc), they are very reluctant in taking the lead for developing a plugin infrastructure. I met the guys at Google's audio team at NAMM, and exchanged emails with them a couple of times. When I asked about plugin infrastructure, they said that they have no plans for it and directed me to a third party frameworkPeter - IK Multimedia wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:14 pm However, they do seem to give the impression that the audio performance issue has been solved multiple times over the recent years which has become sort of a tease to both developers and users.
We do have some audio apps that people enjoy using on the platform, but we could have many more if more of the audio functionality caught up to iOS.
Works at KV331 Audio
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster voted #1 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
SynthMaster One voted #4 in MusicRadar's "Best Synth of 2019" poll
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- KVRian
- 716 posts since 23 Dec, 2011
Apple controls the iOS ecosystem. From hardware to what is permitted in software. Android, from the beginning has been open. Vendors are a lot less restricted in what and how they implement things in Android-land. In other words.. Apple specifically controls I/O on their devices and Android.. well — there is no formal control from soup to nuts.
Apple: 10ms audio latency — because they control the ecosystem. Android can only dream.
The (very nice - thanks for the link!) article mentioned above goes into a lot of other reasons why Android music apps suffer (sales in addition to performance), but at the end of the day... Android just doesn't have control of the I/O on all the licensee devices.
Apple: 10ms audio latency — because they control the ecosystem. Android can only dream.
The (very nice - thanks for the link!) article mentioned above goes into a lot of other reasons why Android music apps suffer (sales in addition to performance), but at the end of the day... Android just doesn't have control of the I/O on all the licensee devices.
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vitocorleone123 vitocorleone123 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=333504
- KVRAF
- 1895 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW
A: Apparently not quite.
Cubasis is coming to Android, so Steinberg has voted a tentative "not dead yet". Will anyone buy it, given the lack of an overall ecosystem? Hope so!
Cubasis is coming to Android, so Steinberg has voted a tentative "not dead yet". Will anyone buy it, given the lack of an overall ecosystem? Hope so!