Reason 11 and generative stuff -Wow! A praise.

[Psuper]

Generative music. How exactly are you ever going to derive satisfaction if it didn’t come from inside you?

I'm not into automated generation, however everything 'handed' to you in the music world is designed to inspire: its what you personally do with those tools that defines satisfaction and reception.

Same thing applies to presets, samples, etc which is why I typically do pure piano/vocal I have a hard time wanting to write music with presets outside of pure piano. I didn't create that piano I'm playing either... well.. not completely.

[IncarnateX]

Generative music. How exactly are you ever going to derive satisfaction if it didn’t come from inside you?

Because the idea is that at least half of it shall come from the machines. Man-machine interaction. Machines need love too. I take control of some of it, some is left to the machines, though with different degrees of freedom that I design for them.

[Michael L]

^^Here is a playful 3-minute demo on how Brian Eno's musical taste guides his use of generative scripts that Peter Chilvers wrote in Logic:

[IncarnateX]

^^^ Yes, it is called Scriptor, and it can do something beyond a typical prob seq, because it can not only decide how often a note is played on a given position but also the vary the notes to be played. A fine tool, though Logic Pro X cannot really run that many of them at the same time in contrast to Reason, which can run an absurd amount of modules on my mac. Thus, it is worth chaining modules in Reason to get the same effect instead of using Scriptor. However, I have used Logic’s Drummer in conjunction with Reason by using Reason as a VSTi in logic.

[Michael L]

Thanks for the useful comparison. Does most of Reason's generative functionality for you come from the 3rd party Extensions?

[IncarnateX]

Does most of Reason's generative functionality for you come from the 3rd party Extensions?

It can take a big mile on its own, but seemingly its modules are mostly aimed at the here-and-now self-contained approach for beginners. To go into true modular nutter and chain modules endlessly, you'd have to supply with a good bunch of third party stuff. Think my own rate is approximately 30% Reason and 70% third party. However, that includes minor modules for conversion and connectivity only.

[IncarnateX]

....double

[imrae]

Still finding my way around the Lectric Panda PSQ-1684, which includes Euclidean and linear-feedback-shift-register (i.e. "Turing Machine") sections. The workflow is a bit disorientating when it comes to understanding how the sections affect each other.

In general I am more interested in loopable/repeatable/deterministic pseudo-randomness than true random generation. I don't like it when my "composition" is noticeably different each time it is played back.

[JoseC.]

In general I am more interested in loopable/repeatable/deterministic pseudo-randomness than true random generation. I don't like it when my "composition" is noticeably different each time it is played back.

That is what I am experimenting now with VCV Rack. I create a sequence and then I create another parallel harmonized line sending the former to a quantizer set to its scale. A second quantizer set to notes of the same scale is conected to the first, and randomly toggles notes of its scale on and off by a sample and hold module every fixed number of measures. An off scale note does not get turned on again until the same note is received again, so next time the sequence plays, that note gets changed into other within the scale.

The result are evolving harmonized sequences that change at the pace set by the clock received by the sample and hold, so you decide how much repetition you want. You also compose the original sequence, that may or may not sound at the same time. The scale notes that you include in the second quantizer determine what harmonies are allowed.

[WasteLand]

i tried Voltage Modular in reason 11 (doesn't work in reason 10....). of course the extra audio outputs can't be routed to a cv input. i tried a seqeuncer, simple, with the cv out to aux 2L.
is there a workaround?

you can output cv to hardware, but within software ecosystems??

[IncarnateX]

In general I am more interested in loopable/repeatable/deterministic pseudo-randomness than true random generation. I don't like it when my "composition" is noticeably different each time it is played back.

Then you should not bother with Euclidean sequencers but just stick to a stepseq with probability per step, e.g. like Kompulsion, which has 16 channels and 32 steps. In such a seq, you decide which notes are steady and which varies according to different prob settings. Thus, you can make an artificial “fugue” where a theme (subject) is repeated but with ongoing variations. Euclideans can do the same but in a more cumbersome way. They are good for something else, when things get a little wilder.

[imrae]

Probablility steps aren't deterministic; they are the opposite of what I am looking for.

Euclideans are a powerful building block when you a) clock a sequencer with them and/or b) modulate their parameters.

[k-tronix]

Still finding my way around the Lectric Panda PSQ-1684, which includes Euclidean and linear-feedback-shift-register (i.e. "Turing Machine") sections. The workflow is a bit disorientating when it comes to understanding how the sections affect each other.

In general I am more interested in loopable/repeatable/deterministic pseudo-randomness than true random generation. I don't like it when my "composition" is noticeably different each time it is played back.

Same here, that sequencer is challenging, but apparently worth the effort--I'm determined to get there. This discussion has been helpful to me:
https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=7502328

Overall, Lectric Panda's products are first-rate and well worth the effort and price.

[IncarnateX]

Probablility steps aren't deterministic; they are the opposite of what I am looking for.

I see, somehow I misread your "pseudo-randomness" as "semi-randomness", my bad. Is the thing you look for like a randomize bottom, where it generates but stays the same until next time you hit it?

[goldenanalog]

I am lost in Reason 11 for the time being. Need to praise it. Where else than KVR?

I left DAWs five years ago to dive into hardware. However when I got the idea that I should make more generative stuff, I spend 1 ½ years with cumbersome hardware sets-ups involving Elektrons, Toraiz Squid, Korg Karma, Roland R8 MKII, Beat Step Pro and other pieces that could do some probability/generative stuff . Eventually, I worked with 8+ hardware sequencers, which had to be run in parallel to get what I wanted. So, I gave up most of it and ended up with Roland Fantom 6 and MPC One, which can do some (very) limited probability stuff with some workarounds. However, a month ago I was stroken with such a fever: I just had to have a working generative orchestra NOOOOOOOOW! Thus I looked to Reason, which I have not consulted since my 6.5 upgrade, and found that it has been updated with loads of generative stuff during the years. I am stunned to say it at least. Not only am I able to fulfill my vision by its means, but I can achieve it in many different ways. It is a modular dream now. I always found Reaktor too intimidating to me with its deep DNA and symbolic representations. This is much more me. And with total recall compared to my hardware mess.

On another note: I remember REs to be CPU heavy in Reason 6.5, however, my macbook Air from 2017 with 1,8 Ghz and 8 GB ram has no problem running 42+ modules. Something must have happen in between. Stunning.

Anyway, I just wanted to hail Reason 11 with this post and refer to some of the modules I use to share my joy with anyone who likes to explore the generative stuff too. So, here are a few picks but there are loads yet (click the picture to enlarge). Thanks a lot Reason Studios.



All the best
IX

This is an outstanding post, IncarnateX! Appreciate you also sharing in graphic detail some of the RE's that you have; what you're experimenting with. Would actually love to see a separate music audio place HERE on KVR where those of us who are interested in Generative music can share our ideas and accomplishments w/eachother.

Reason has seemed to have attracted development of some really interesting/experimental RE's - and part of the joy of the platform is that many of them are relatively cheap compared to vst's - i put their overall cost as somewhere between the brilliant content we now see in iOS, and a typical vst. As a mention: The Rigs are an absolute steal - you get A LOT a lot for your money, and they often do include a generative device. And they - like the majority of the rest - go on sale from time to time as well.

Some of the devices in Reason are now straight ports from vst's....lol....sorry, i could go on and on.

Anyway, wanted to also do a quick shout out to a few of my favorite developers focusing their work on the platform:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... 0Bean%20AB

Robotic Bean Ab produces some great bread and butter (and not so) RE's to primarily help to facilitate the mature Reason CV universe -

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... ic%20Cling

Static Cling is another winner. Their Delta Midi computer is fascinating!

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... peed%20Ltd

This is from the description of their Chordbank RE:

"Unique to the RE format is the ability to store the individual velocities to be replayed - we haven't found any "chord theory" type devices in any other plugin formats that can do this, actually (out of curiosity, if you know of any please tell us). The ability to store chords with a preset velocity, or to trigger the velocity as per the input MIDI are also present. All notes and velocities are available for editing in the bank, of course.

Also unique to the RE format (and again probably everywhere else ) are the flexible options for triggering chords and scale notes. Each patch can hold a maximum of 24 chords and their matched scales, but these can be reassigned. So if you want the chords in banks 10, 17 and 19 to link to the scale held by bank 7, while chord 7 is linked to scale 1, it can be done and is quick and easy to set up. In fact, every action in Chordbank has been designed to require the minimal number of user gestures for set-up."

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... ngineering

Noise Engineering. Wow. Digital ports of their hardware modules - like what Lexicon has done with their hardware reverbs.

Of course: all of these devices can be integrated with generative players to expand the capabilities of whats all happening ITB - AND you can now comfortably patch Reason into external hardware to explode the capabilities of Reason - create a forest of tech all running synchronized.

Here's the key to that:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... 20Sleepers

It's actually been around for a while. And ES never really expanded their RE offering to reach any sort of 'Suite' count; but the RE is precisely what's needed to hook Reason in a big way to the hardware modular synth world.

- GA

Edit - Addendum:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... lar-synths