I noticed a trend in scammers lately, so I've been asking in my sales thread that any buyer who wants to do business with me have a minimum of 50 posts and 10 successful past sales on the board.
I've noticed a lot of people have been ignoring my message and reaching out asking me to make an exception, but I've been politely declining thinking it's a good thing to stick to.
What do you think? Am I just being too unrealistic here? I figured it would be better to sell to established members rather than just letting anyone buy from me.
Is asking for a minimum of 50 posts too much before doing business with someone in the marketplace?
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- KVRAF
- 2110 posts since 5 Oct, 2015 from Swedish / Living in Hong Kong
I think you are free to request pretty much anything you want. As a seller however you should be a tad more safe since the unwritten rule at KVR is payment before delivery. As a seller I would advice you to safely store each conversation and transaction in case of any dispute.
In theory a scammer could use a regular Paypal payment, receive the license, and then file a claim at Paypal. In that sense the family and friends option is more safe for the seller. For the buyer the regular payment option is more safe but slightly more costly. In the end of the day it all comes down to trust.
Personally I avoid buying from many sellers. I always look at how long they been a KVR member. Long time members seems to be a more safe bet. In a few cases I bought from new members but only if I seen that they have many positive comments. I don't care about the number of posts as you can easily rack up 50 posts in let's say a month.
I never sold anything in the market place but I bought many things. Not all buyers and sellers give feedback in the feedback thread which is a pity. Just one post with "Successful deal" or perhaps "Transaction OK" would be enough. I think I got comments in the feedback thread about half the times I bought something.
In theory a scammer could use a regular Paypal payment, receive the license, and then file a claim at Paypal. In that sense the family and friends option is more safe for the seller. For the buyer the regular payment option is more safe but slightly more costly. In the end of the day it all comes down to trust.
Personally I avoid buying from many sellers. I always look at how long they been a KVR member. Long time members seems to be a more safe bet. In a few cases I bought from new members but only if I seen that they have many positive comments. I don't care about the number of posts as you can easily rack up 50 posts in let's say a month.
I never sold anything in the market place but I bought many things. Not all buyers and sellers give feedback in the feedback thread which is a pity. Just one post with "Successful deal" or perhaps "Transaction OK" would be enough. I think I got comments in the feedback thread about half the times I bought something.
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- Banned
- 2524 posts since 4 Jul, 2019
seems a bit unrealistic although if it suits you then fine. I probably have 10 sales or more, but there is not a lot of feedback for me because I never or seldom ask for feedback. But I am a good buyer and seller - which really just means I am an average sort of person ie honest.
I think the post count is not a bad idea - I always check that and then have a look at what people have posted. But I did a recent sale with someone who was completely honest with a musicians website that was legit, who had been on KVR for years but with hardly any posts. So I asked them how that had happened and really it was that they only came on to buy stuff or with very specific questions. They weren't really a forum user. Sale went through fine (ilok and paypal)
I think the post count is not a bad idea - I always check that and then have a look at what people have posted. But I did a recent sale with someone who was completely honest with a musicians website that was legit, who had been on KVR for years but with hardly any posts. So I asked them how that had happened and really it was that they only came on to buy stuff or with very specific questions. They weren't really a forum user. Sale went through fine (ilok and paypal)
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- KVRAF
- 5257 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
Is it reasonable to make a choice about who you will sell to? I don't see why not.
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- KVRist
- 144 posts since 20 Oct, 2012 from NL
Tbh I was on the fence on buying Legend from you but didn't meet the criteria (45 posts with this one 
and 10 positive feedbacks but mostly as a seller) and I wasn't about to be rejected from buying something just because I don't post a lot. So, might not be unrealistic and ultimately it's your choice but it might put some people off.
and 10 positive feedbacks but mostly as a seller) and I wasn't about to be rejected from buying something just because I don't post a lot. So, might not be unrealistic and ultimately it's your choice but it might put some people off.-
- KVRian
- 928 posts since 3 Sep, 2011
I don't think it's too much, ever since the time I got scammed by a buyer I would ask for minimum 100 posts or one year membership while selling something. I might relax it a bit if I'm buying something due to PayPal's buyer protection. In both cases might relax it further a bit if the buyer/seller has enough feedback.
This is not a theory, it has happened to me right here on kvr, and I'm surprised buyer scams don't get talked about as much as seller scams, as they definitely are a thing.
EDIT: I feel it should be a rule on KVR to only allow new users to post in the marketplace after a minimum of 1 year, ideally even 2-3 years.
That tad bit extra safety is an illusion. Storing the conversation or transaction won't help you, PayPal are heavily biased in favour of the buyer and will most likely decide in their favour. The only way it might help is if you actually ship something, but from my own personal experience they won't care or listen if it's an online license transfer. Also I can't say how all developers will react, but can say for certain that NI were not helpful at all. Even when I told them I don't care if I get my licenses back but just want to point out this scammer so they can watch his account they didn't really seem to care.ATN69 wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:34 am I think you are free to request pretty much anything you want. As a seller however you should be a tad more safe since the unwritten rule at KVR is payment before delivery. As a seller I would advice you to safely store each conversation and transaction in case of any dispute.
In theory a scammer could use a regular Paypal payment, receive the license, and then file a claim at Paypal.
This is not a theory, it has happened to me right here on kvr, and I'm surprised buyer scams don't get talked about as much as seller scams, as they definitely are a thing.
EDIT: I feel it should be a rule on KVR to only allow new users to post in the marketplace after a minimum of 1 year, ideally even 2-3 years.
Last edited by maschinelf on Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 35679 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
More important for me would be the time a buyer or seller is registered here. Best 2 years plus. That's no guarantee against being scammed, but, that and using the regular Goods & Services Paypal payment definitely already adds a lot of safety IMO.
Anyway, I would hope that more people who got scammed would actually try to litigate. It's a real shame that most of these fkn pigs get away with what they do. That way it's no wonder that there's so many of them.
Anyway, I would hope that more people who got scammed would actually try to litigate. It's a real shame that most of these fkn pigs get away with what they do. That way it's no wonder that there's so many of them.
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- Banned
- 887 posts since 3 Jul, 2016
- similar situation here, I haven't got over 10 feedback on board (some buyers didn't leave 'cos didn't know how [I explained but still..] but I have more posts then req.Alfa Romeo wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:43 am Tbh I was on the fence on buying Legend from you but didn't meet the criteria (45 posts with this one
My last exchange here was worth more then $800 [for both in total] - still .. avoided dealing with you as I have less then 10 feedback here...so I guess it'll take you a lot longer to sell as the experienced sellers/buyers know all the deals here and out there.Looks like some are here to sell for profit.[seen one selling Bitwig many times etc] anyway who cares..
cheers.
MPG X670E CARBON Ryzen 9 7900, 64Gb 6K DDR5 4x2tb Nvmes
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- KVRist
- 161 posts since 22 Apr, 2019
Seems like a smart idea.
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- KVRAF
- 3086 posts since 4 May, 2012
Maybe I'm just like my father, too bold.
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- KVRAF
- 5444 posts since 15 Feb, 2020
Well, exactly!
I lost my heart in Cap de Creus
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- KVRAF
- 2763 posts since 28 Feb, 2015
What could be the risk of selling to a scammer? Is it the potential use of stolen credit card numbers, or can there be something else?
Mac Mini M4 Pro | 14 Cores (10P/4E) | 48GB RAM | Studio One | Reason | Bitwig Studio | Logic Pro | FL Studio | Cubase Pro | Waveform | Reaper | Renoise | ~1000 VSTs/AUs | ~350 REs
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- KVRian
- 928 posts since 3 Sep, 2011
The risk is PayPal being deliberately one sided or biased. Might differ from country to country and depending on your country's laws, but another possible complication is that some transactions might involve two or more countries.
In my particular case having the kvr conversations, emails and other relevant info didn't make a difference. I almost felt like PayPal are obligated to decide in favour of the buyer and didn't even bother checking any of the stuff I submitted as evidence. I also searched around and found that this is not just a problem with individual sellers like on kvr, but even registered sellers with legit businesses face this problem, and PayPal is clearly biased in favour of settling disputes in favour of buyers. I think it also makes a difference if something was actually shipped and there is proof of that, because despite my repeating it multiple times that it was an online transfer of serial numbers, they kept asking for a tracking ID and basically ruled in his favour because there was none.
I'd actually feel safer buying from a new kvr member than selling to one.
In my particular case having the kvr conversations, emails and other relevant info didn't make a difference. I almost felt like PayPal are obligated to decide in favour of the buyer and didn't even bother checking any of the stuff I submitted as evidence. I also searched around and found that this is not just a problem with individual sellers like on kvr, but even registered sellers with legit businesses face this problem, and PayPal is clearly biased in favour of settling disputes in favour of buyers. I think it also makes a difference if something was actually shipped and there is proof of that, because despite my repeating it multiple times that it was an online transfer of serial numbers, they kept asking for a tracking ID and basically ruled in his favour because there was none.
I'd actually feel safer buying from a new kvr member than selling to one.