KVR Audio

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:49 am

Noumena wrote:
Is anyone else seeing all the presets coming through way too hot? In Bitwig nearly all the presets send meters into the red and need to be pulled down.

Noticed that too. You can at least lock the master output to a lower level which works well enough for browsing with headroom. I think I kept the master output volume locked around 4 and that left plenty of headroom and felt pretty good for most patches. The unison patches will be louder than the rest but still below clipping.

tony10000 · Post by **tony10000** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:12 am

CircuitEYE wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:49 pm This is interesting.....

Synapse Audio Obsession VS Arturia OB-Xa

Obsession is way better...no contest.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:14 am

e-crooner wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:49 amA perfectionist notices inconsistencies, precision is part of my job. I am not saying that one does not understand the way it is now or that it is a problem, but it continues to be an inconsistency. I often notice that with engineers. They are good at technology, but otherwise a bit sloppy.

Not be be nit-picky but "perfectionist" and "nit-picking loser" are synonyms. But a perfectionist would also notice that the labels do actually read identically - Voice Adjustment Edit in both cases, followed by "Active/Mute". Only the last "Voice" is removed as it would be redundant in the 16 voice layout. I'm surprised you didn't pick that up. Obviously the non-native speakers at Synapse did and got it 100% right. I'm also surprised you haven't bought up the fact that the "Oscillators" label isn't centred within it's section. It's the first thing I notice every time I open the GUI.

Noumena wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:43 amIs anyone else seeing all the presets coming through way too hot? In Bitwig nearly all the presets send meters into the red and need to be pulled down.

I always thought it was really loud until I started putting it into mixes, whereupon I discovered it's not really any louder than most other things. But too loud is always preferable to too quiet because it's much easier to turn something down than to turn it up.

BTW, just because your channel meter goes into the red, doesn't mean you have to pull it back. Channels have infinite headroom and the meters in most hosts are arbitrary, more like activity meters than anything.

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:49 amNoticed that too. You can at least lock the master output to a lower level which works well enough for browsing with headroom. I think I kept the master output volume locked around 4 and that left plenty of headroom and felt pretty good for most patches. The unison patches will be louder than the rest but still below clipping.

Why not turn the channel down? That's what I'd have done if I thought it necessary. But it's not necessary for me because I have a Brickwall limiter on my master by default.

bafonso · Post by **bafonso** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:27 am

So... is this thing any good?

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:28 am

Echoes in the Attic wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:28 am
deastman wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:19 am I already bought the Arturia one, since it was only $49. Now the only question is whether the Synapse version sounds *that* much better to justify buying another emulation of the same synth. I wish someone would do a proper comparison which actually attempts to duplicate the same sounds on both synths.
Can’t you demo it and compare yourself?

Yes, of course I can. But not while I’m stuck at work and away from my studio. I listened to the comparison video, and it wasn’t really any sort of true comparison. I wish there was a better one I could have listened to at that moment, rather than waiting a few days before I’ll have time to download the demo and do my own comparison. Why am I even having to explain such a silly thing?

Yorrrrrr · Post by **Yorrrrrr** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:29 am

bafonso wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:27 am So... is this thing any good?

Yes! Try it yourself though.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:32 am

Arashi wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:36 am
deastman wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:19 am I already bought the Arturia one, since it was only $49. Now the only question is whether the Synapse version sounds *that* much better to justify buying another emulation of the same synth. I wish someone would do a proper comparison which actually attempts to duplicate the same sounds on both synths.
I'm working on it. I now have the "Low Saw Bass" patch (which I matched on my OB-6 yesterday) sounding very close on the Arturia OB-Xa V. The biggest problem I've run into so far is OB-Xa V is always legato (overlapping notes do not retrigger the filter envelope), while Obsession always retriggers, and neither one of them has a switch to toggle this behavior (nor is it possible to do anything with either of their mod matrixes, as far as I can tell). The OB-6 does have a setting for this, so I can get it to match either of the plugins but not both with the same patch, and the plugins cannot match each other (though I should be able to fake the retrigger for the purposes of the comparison by just editing a MIDI sequence so the notes don't overlap).

Arturia's manual says the original OB-Xa is legato in unison mode, and I happen to prefer legato most of the time, but IMO every synth should have a legato/retrigger switch, so this is an unfortunate omission in both plugins.

Couple other challenges I've run into so far:

The envelope ranges are very different. Perhaps one is linear and the other is exponential…or maybe it's more complicated than that. As with most of these things, you have to pretty much ignore the knob positions and just use your ear.

Filter key tracking seems to have a very different slope in each plugin. In this specific example, the "Low Saw Bass" patch has both the key track button enabled and also uses a mod matrix slot with the "Const(ant)" source to increase the tracking slope. On the OB-Xa V, I found the key track slope using only the button is much higher than Obsession, and I needed to compensate for the difference by applying negative 100% key tracking in the OB-Xa V mod matrix (which does not cancel out the button; just tames it a bit), otherwise the filter tracking is way off across octaves.

Need to come back and give it another pass after giving my ears a break for a bit, and also try matching several other patches (in both directions).

But the OB-6 isn’t at all the same synth as an OB-XA. It has a historical lineage and certain similarities, but I don’t see the point in that comparison. The Arturia and Synapse synths, on the other hand, are both supposed to be accurate emulations of the original OB-XA, and it would be useful to do a matching comparison between them.

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:55 am

deastman wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:32 am But the OB-6 isn’t at all the same synth as an OB-XA. It has a historical lineage and certain similarities, but I don’t see the point in that comparison. The Arturia and Synapse synths, on the other hand, are both supposed to be accurate emulations of the original OB-XA, and it would be useful to do a matching comparison between them.

Yes, as I explained in my previous post (which, to be fair, has already been pushed over the horizon by the constant stream of activity in this thread), I'm not expecting either of these plugins to sound exactly like the OB-6, and was only using it to get a sense of whether Obsession is on the same level of depth and character as an actual analog poly synth (the OB-6 is the only one I own).

I'm now doing actual comparisons between Obsession and OB-Xa V. I don't have an original to compare them to, so I'm just taking some of my favorite patches on each and trying to replicate them on the other. The OB-6 is not part of this.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:13 am

BONES wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:18 am I have put up a bank of 80 (free) patches for your delectation. Most of them are rejects from the factory bank but it also includes the few that are in there, with enhancements (to utilise features that were added later in the beta process). To plump it up to 80 I also created a few new patches using Orion's Genetics feature to get them started. That's where the weird shit happens.

Most of the leads and drones plus some of the pads, are in the darker/heavier style you might expect but a lot of the rest of them aren't at all so there should be sounds in there for everyone. Going through them this morning to level the outputs and make sure it wasn't too samey, I was surprised a few times by how huge OBSession can sound without having to use Unison. It's really quite amazing, probably a bigger single voice sound than any other synth I have access to.

Have at it - https://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=one&id=3440

I have noticed those this morning. Many thanks for them.

So far I only did a quick check of the pathces but Indeed some nice ones there.

Overall with the factory presets and the free patch downloads we are at around 600 patches now.

smellypants · Post by **smellypants** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:36 am

BONES wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:18 am I have put up a bank of 80 (free) patches for your delectation. Most of them are rejects from the factory bank but it also includes the few that are in there, with enhancements (to utilise features that were added later in the beta process). To plump it up to 80 I also created a few new patches using Orion's Genetics feature to get them started. That's where the weird shit happens.

Most of the leads and drones plus some of the pads, are in the darker/heavier style you might expect but a lot of the rest of them aren't at all so there should be sounds in there for everyone. Going through them this morning to level the outputs and make sure it wasn't too samey, I was surprised a few times by how huge OBSession can sound without having to use Unison. It's really quite amazing, probably a bigger single voice sound than any other synth I have access to.

Have at it - https://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=one&id=3440

Ha!

Now I have even less need to make my own! Muhaha!

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:42 am

Talking about patches soon i want to finally update my polyphonic factory presets for The Legend with the new 8 voice mode. I had alraedy started with it but then spent most time with the OBsession beta.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:30 am

BONES wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:51 am How do you know you have found a flaw? You are comparing a highly processed sound from a record with the raw sound of a synth. Of course it is going to be different.

You are very welcome to prove my theory wrong by making that beautiful attack curve with Obsession plus any processing of your choice (which was likely available to VH at the time).

Someone on GS said that the very smooth transition from attack to sustain is probably caused by some op amp that overdrives the envelope signal - i am not an electronic tech, so idk about that.

Also i doubt any processing would change the shape of the curve that is clearly visible on the 1984 sonogram screenshot i attached earlier (the whole song proves my theory, not just the beginning).

BONES wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:51 am You need to compare the original patch used, do you have that?

No, i don't need an original patch for a sound that simple.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:24 am

I also have some doubts about voice allocation and re-use on same key press.
Is it really like that on the hardware too ?
I sometimes like to play the attack and release by pressing the same key before the release goes back to 0 and getting something like:
ua ua ua ua ua

Instead on the Osession i get a new voice starting from 0 on every next key press:
ua ua ua ua ua

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:48 am

And some more detailed control over the "organic" knob would be nice too.
I would like to be able to set different period of the random LFO there independently of the amount.
And separate "organic" for all the major parts of the synth, to be able to for example set some wild oscillators with more tame filter variations.

Examigan · Post by **Examigan** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:56 am

Ingonator wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:42 am Talking about patches soon i want to finally update my polyphonic factory presets for The Legend with the new 8 voice mode. I had alraedy started with it but then spent most time with the OBsession beta.

I didn't know about an 8 voice mode, just the 4 voice. Is that a brand new version that just isn't released yet or is it available now?

Synapse Audio OBSESSION is now available!