The Waves Update Plan scam

[Mathematics]

I'm still sporting V9 with no issues on Windows 10 (1909). I like the VST3 addtition, although, I almost feel like it was a work-around rather than a true enhancement.

[simon.a.billington]

I don’t think any of us are happy with paying for updates, but it’s important to remember that they aren’t mandatory. However, Apple and Logic sure make you do it after certain updates, and that is total BS. I don’t know who to be mad about over that one: Waves or Apple?

A bit of both but then you have to ask why.

Apple made its changes for security reasons to help protect our data and privacy and minimise virus and malware issues. That's a bit hard to fault. Waves have 20+ years of plugins they need to update so that they still open in 20 year old projects while no other developer does that. That takes time effort and can't be done for free and they're only doing it to accomodate changes in MacOS. So that's a bit hard to fault too.

However as I have said before, they weren't the only dev to charge for Catalina compatibility, iZotope did with Ozone 9. It's just the kind of changes the developers have to charge for from time to time. It's annoying and I don't like it either, but its understandable. I'm sure they wouldn't charge for it unless they had to because its simply just worth the investment than risking all the public backlash. Its smarter business sense. The fact that they are charging only says that, like everyone else, the still need to be able to afford to eat.

[jochicago]

However as I have said before, they weren't the only dev to charge for Catalina compatibility, iZotope did with Ozone 9. It's just the kind of changes the developers have to charge for from time to time.

Can you expand on that? I have Ozone 8 and 9 and did not go through any forced version change nor received any emails about having to pay for the Catalina update.

We seem to debate this stuff once a month. So I don't want to bring up the same arguments, but I'll add this time that I don't see Waves maintaining their 20 y/o plugins primarily due to their commitment to opening old sessions. They are still selling 20 y/o plugins today like they are hot stuff, so they have to keep them working in order to keep selling them. Most (if not nearly all) of their stuff in the Gold bundle is at least 10 years old, and they sell it today like it's as fresh as what every other developer is putting out. So the whole "session compatibility" marketing line seems to me mostly a ruse to shrug off the fact that the plugins get no new features for decades while continue to be sold as a prime lineup.

The other thing about having to charge for updates, it's really a business model issue. We definitely need these companies to have a working business model to stay profitable and keep the plugins updated. But it seems like every other company manages to come up with a model that doesn't rely on constant deception, version games and hidden fees.

Can someone here attest to old sessions working? Does anyone here have a session from 2008 that will still open? I have so many version and license issues, I get DAW warnings just from one version to the next, the previous Waves installers giving me grief, it just doesn't seem likely to me that such a thing is possible unless you are still using the same computer with the exact same configuration and versions from 2008.

Here is Sylvia Massy 3 years ago trying to open a PT session from 2008. The best she could do after running the importer was get it to open the audio files, but not the plugins.
youtube.com/watch?v=Zjt0tlGMWT0

[chk071]

I really wished that the OP could change this topic's title. There is no scam, there never was any, there never will be any.

Dunno why there's so much exaggeration and need for selfish politics these days.

[MogwaiBoy]

"Scam" might have a definitive meaning, but to many it subjectively feels like a scam. At the very least Waves' system is fairly opaque and manipulative.

[fuzzlightyear]

I really wished that the OP could change this topic's title. There is no scam, there never was any, there never will be any.

Dunno why there's so much exaggeration and need for selfish politics these days.

Some people confuse WUP with the Upgrade bundles option.

[Greenstorm33]

1. Waves
2. Pretty cheap usually
3. Garbage licensing and installation

Pick 3.

[LeVzi]

I really wished that the OP could change this topic's title. There is no scam, there never was any, there never will be any.

Dunno why there's so much exaggeration and need for selfish politics these days.

Well i'll tell you why so you can at least see it from someone else's point of view. And why you'd suggest it's selfish politics is beyond me.

The "scam" is obvious, Separate plugins of the same version (In the original case was V9) I wanted to go to V10 , and one was older than the other in terms of purchase price, but they are the same version and update number, and going to the same update.

So why did Waves charge so much more for one than the other ? It's an update plan, per plugin, why the discrepancy between update prices ?

So you can carry on wishing for a title change, but it's not happening, because to me, this is a deliberate scam. If you want to update from V9.20 to V11 , should be a flat rate across all plugins, regardless of when you bought it during the V9 timespan.

[chk071]

Wel... I don't think there isn't much point in arguing with you, is it? You have made up your mind, and because you feel scammed, you call it a scam. You just miss two basic points: You don't have to upgrade, and Waves don't hide a single thing from you. It's all well documented on their website. You also see the prices when you hit the update button, but, you know that already.

So, all that's left for me here is to once again realize that people mostly don't use their heads to think, and get outrageous when they didn't read stuff, and rant that they got scammed while they didn't. Shame, but, hey, what can you do about it.

[fese]

The word “scam” is heavily overused anyway... seems like for some people, everything they don’t agree with is a “scam”, every company is “greedy” of course and everything that they cannot afford is “overpriced”.
I blame social media and it’s inherent culture of hysteria and outrage.

[fairlyclose]

the scam is in the license transfer where you have to pay an upgrade fee to sell the plugins when there is no actual upgrade to the plugins in many cases ie you are paying for nothing. And on top of that you have to pay a transfer fee of 5%
I believe a more transparent method would have you pay say 10% transfer fee and no upgrade fee - actually make that 6% as the fee is calculated on historically highest listed price

[chk071]

The word “scam” is heavily overused anyway... seems like for some people, everything they don’t agree with is a “scam”, every company is “greedy” of course and everything that they cannot afford is “overpriced”.
I blame social media and it’s inherent culture of hysteria and outrage.

Exactly.

[zvenx]

Whilst indeed I wouldn't use the word scam myself, there is something 'unusual'/'peculiar' about Waves, which indeed if it existed when I bought my first Waves plugin, I would not have done so.

1) Waves 9 existed for six years as the current version (2012-2018), during which time there were many OS changes on both Mac and PC, and compatibility updates like for the overwhelming majority of audio software developers were provided without additional cost.
Waves 10 came in 2018 and Waves 11 in 2019 with more or less no new features (meaning if you have no bundles, there was no across the board improvement in your plugins). I am not aware of any other plugin developer that charges you for an OS compatibility update without additional features etc.

2) Waves (along with e-licenser stuff, mcdsp) are one of the few developers who only offer one activation-at-a-time per license. Yes now you can get a second license, but that works only if your WUP is up to date, which seems now to be every one year. Meaning for people who have two machines like me, if they want to take advantage of this second license, purchasing WUP every year is a must.

3) Waves are also one of the few audio software developers who do not offer email/phone call support if your wup is not up to date for the product you are emailing/calling in about. So yes if you need to contact support, they say you first have to update your wup.

So yes indeed you won't have to update wup ever year, but if you don't you lose email/phone technical support, possibly lose OS compatibility especially if you are on the mac.

I would not do it again and I have stopped buying Waves plugins for these reasons.

It is clear to me from their constant $29 sales that the WUP is the 'catch' in this great deal and that is indeed their business model.

rsp

[chk071]

Of course it's a way to create money. It's just that it isn't a scam, and that you're free to update or not.

[zvenx]

Of course it's a way to create money. It's just that it isn't a scam, and that you're free to update or not.

Free in what sense?
As I mentioned the second license is tied to WUP being valid, for those users I wouldn't call their position free to update, if they want a working system.
Of course if you mean free as they wouldn't die if they don't update then I agree with you.
But in that scenario of the second license not updating has real implications for their second rig.

Also to get email/phone in support your WUP needs to be active. So if you have a problem that you want their technical help in, you are to do what, other than update wup?

rsp