Apple Mac computers make jump to its own chips

[Haptix]

Still in the 15w nominal range..


https://gadgetversus.com/processor/amd- ... -i7-8565u/

[Burillo]

^

https://gadgetversus.com/processor/amd- ... 13-bionic/

pretty much the same - AMD wins because multithreaded test because it has more cores, A13 wins single threaded test because apparently whoever designed that laptop couldn't provide the AMD chip with enough cooling to stay in turbo range.

[Burillo]

Still in the 15w nominal range..


https://gadgetversus.com/processor/amd- ... -i7-8565u/

so, similar base frequency which means they go almost clock-for-clock in single threaded test (with both having crap cooling), while AMD chip decimating multithreaded test because it has 8 physical cores as opposed to 4.

[Haptix]

Much so, and that AMD Ryzen 7 4700U is pretty much a "basic" as it gets...thers the H and HS version as well (TDP will naturally rise quite a bit ) but so does the performance I read that AMD is going for 3nm for the next gen. but rumors are rumors until its in front of you.

[Haptix]

The H and HS versions being multithreaded as well..and the best thing, they are cheap.

But this, this is something of its own league..

https://www.techspot.com/review/2003-amd-ryzen-4000/

[ansolas]

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... vsm1185620

What about the Intel-Core-i9-10900K

[Haptix]

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... vsm1185620

What about the Intel-Core-i9-10900K

It has rated tdp of 125W (against 45W of the 4900HS) and it has 2 cores and 4 threads more, yet ONLY 18% faster according to userbenchmark

[Burillo]

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... vsm1185620

What about the Intel-Core-i9-10900K

see above response, i9 is generally not good value for money. but i bet it will beat an ARM chip

[dermage]

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/I ... vsm1185620

What about the Intel-Core-i9-10900K

Why do you compare a workstation Desktop CPU against a mobile integrated graphics CPU

Anyway, until we see highend ARM systems some years will pass I guess. The devkit is not nearly as powerful as current desktop offereings from AMD/Intel. In the Ultrabook (think MacBook AIR) market they will easily win or be at least on par with the current x86 offerings.

[cnt]

Pretty sad day for developers of music software.

Personal opinion:
I mean I'm still on my quite strong 9 year old i7 2600k (overclocked@4,5ghz on air) on Windows and upgraded several single items without trashing the whole system. Apple in the meantime ended to support this CPU for Mojave in 2018 already. In the studio I have an i7700k which is only about 20-30% faster than the 9 year old, so it's running quite well and Microsoft does not deprecate Software all the time.
I'm no MS fanboi, but their system just makes more sense for professionals IMO (at least after they fixed several real-time/low latency problems about 10 years ago)

So the Windows user is here "worried" about the Mac users. Oh how sweet. If you're running on Windows and happy there why the hell do you even care about any of this other than to troll?

How sweet that you don't have anything of value to add in this discussion but to attack other users here? If you want to contribute with your point of view, just do so.

I work with a vast number of systems on a daily basis, all of them has to support "all" platforms. About 30% of them being Apple products (about 6000 out of 20000 devices). I make sure our enterprise environment is compatible with ALL platforms, from Windows, Linux, MacOS, ChromeOS, Android, etc. Guess what users and what OS that has brought most trouble expecting everyone else to use specific non-standard proprietary protocols?
I also help music and video production studios, they mostly go full Apple because they are used to it and they also want all the major industry standard DAWs and programs in the same studios (Protools, Cubase and Logic). They sure pay extra $$$ for that decision. My own studio is 100% Windows based and I can run much more complex and large projects than they can in their Apple setup. But good for them if they are happy.

I have no issue with the actual quality of Apples products. But it's emberrasing to see how Apple tries to take control over the narrative based on some lies and wishful thinking - and hiding of real facts. Of course, I can be totally wrong about the ARM silicon! Can you please tell me how good Apples ARM CPU's are based on facts, any benchmarks available?

And... maybe, just maybe, YOU are the one acting like a troll here? Where are your own opinions, insights, viewpoints.. anything to add to the discussion?

Dude, give me a break. You're the one who came in here guns blazing about how bad this all is, how Apple isn't serious, blah blah blah. It was dripping with trollspew. Sorry its hard to hear.

If Apple wasn't serious they wouldnt be doing it. They didnt get where they are about not being serious.

One only need do a simple Google search, and the fact that you a) dont know any of the details at all and b) didn't bother to even look again tells me where your interests lie, and its not on the facts. Lets look at this article from 2018 when the A12X was released:

https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/2799 ... -geekbench

At the time the A12x used in the ipad pro very close in both single AND multicore performance to the 13" Macbook Pro of the time. The author notes that when you dig in to the benchmarks there are areas where Intel is definitely faster. But if you think that Apple is simply sitting around not driving their own designs forward I've got a bridge in New York to sell you. Its a multi-year process and as of yet we have no idea what they've got in the pipeline to get where they need to be. Do you have any idea how tech products like this are developed? I can guarantee you its a multi-year process. Doesn't mean Intel is going away tomorrow. It also doesnt mean that Apple isn't going to continue supporting their Intel machine for years to come. I have a 2013 machine that is running Catalina right now just fine.

So when you're really serious and want to have a rational discussion get back to me. Until then you're just a troll.

Do you work in the daw/audio/video business and know the hardware and software requirements?

Sorry, but you are buying into the Apple narrative for real aren't you? Why are you so defensive otherwise? It's ok, you can do anything you want to. Free will and all that. Your money.

When you are telling me that you think that a 2013 laptop is good enough, it tells me you don't have high expectations.and that maybe you don't do too much audio and video production work? Rendering times does not affect you? The nr of VSTs in the same project does not affect you?

Well then, you obviously don't have high expectations if you are fine with a laptop from 2013. I can see that you will be very happy with Apples silicon. Good for you!

Lets come back in two years and see if Apple went all-in on ARM or not.
I seriously doubt it, but maybe 5G will make a shift in the industry where client/endpoint hardware power kind of useless if you are only using your machine as a terminal. Maybe in two years we will be running low latency apps in the cloud, using AMD/Intel/Nvidias raw CPU/GPU power from datacenters. (I would say we are atleast 10 years away from that happening to low latency applications like audio, but who knows).

They said that they would continue to release Intel Macbooks for 2 more years, right?
See you in 2022!

[DrGonzo]

Lets come back in two years and see if Apple went all-in on ARM or not.

Apple have been known to change their minds before, so yeah a big +1 on that.

It seems to me Apple have been planning this for quite some time and are prepared to their teeth. Normally I would say that consolidating their platforms into one would be absolutely moronic. But considering that the high specced iPads have proven themselves to handle heavy audio loads - I'm very curious on how this will play out.

Cautiously optimistic? Will absolutely not buy a gen 1 or even a gen 2 of their upcoming Macs, that's for sure. My MacMini will hold itself for at least 2-3 more years.

I wonder what kind of future the Mac Pro will have in the Apple-post-Intel world. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple is planning workstation-class processors.

/C

[IncarnateX]

Always either-or-neither-forced-choice. Got a Mac running Reason and got a PC running Reason. I use both hardware and software too and analog as well as digital synths. Bickering threads are entertaining and even informative but they always invoke my FOMO. What are my problems? None or double?

[echosystm]

I think this is a great move for Apple. They sell a lot of processors now and the economies of scale are incredible. They also have a history of decimating the competition in the mobile space, year after year. I think it's guaranteed that they're going to succeed in the laptop space, which is all I care about. I see a lot of reasons to expect they will succeed in the desktop space too, particularly for specialized workloads like audio and video.

That said, I think the transition will really suck for a lot of musicians. I feel that companies like U-he will do a great job, but most will completely f**k it up. I expect most will not even attempt to update their software, because they aren't making many sales on legacy software. With companies like Ableton, Native Instruments and so on, users have had to wait years for trivial changes. Subsequently, I have zero confidence in their ability to handle an architecture change well.

Personally, I'm selling my Ableton license and all the plugins that I know won't get updated. I have enough knowledge at this point that changing tools isn't a big deal. I see it as a minor short term pain, for considerable long term gain. If anything, change tends to be a good thing for creativity.

[DrGonzo]

It is an interesting move for sure and the transition period will be less than pleasant. But I wonder what impact this will have on Intel x86 processors in the long term. They will still be around for ages to come that's for sure, but that big manufacturers like Microsoft and Apple are showing more and more interest in other processor architectures will most likely create some kind of shift in the market.

What's your take on it?

[echosystm]

Over 100 billion ARM processors have been manufactured at this point. Windows, x86-64 and laptops/desktops become a smaller and smaller part of the computing industry, every year. The trajectory is clear.

Economies of scale have always been the key to dominance in the processor market. This is why Apple had to abandon PPC; they didn't have the volume to make it viable. This is also why Intel desperately tried (and failed) to penetrate the mobile market; they knew they were going to lose scale, relative to the competition.

It can't be understated how powerful Apple's move is; they can use the scale of their mobile business to benefit their laptop/desktop business. No other company in the world is in a position to do this. It is very very obviously the right move.