KVR Audio

joakimlinden · Post by **joakimlinden** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:32 pm

So they have still not "fixed" that abysmal midi functionality?

Hmm... A nice pair of chords would fit right in at this point. Lemme just record this line...

[click]

Hmm... Choose a file? No, I just wanted to record a few notes.

[click click...click]

What the... I must save this to a file?

[click click click...]

Where should I organize my miditracks? Perhaps I should save the whole project into a folder and save the midi file there... Hmmm... But then I have to create folders each time I want to record some notes...

[click click type type]

Now... Where was I?

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:27 am

joakimlinden wrote:So they have still not "fixed" that abysmal midi functionality?

Hmm... A nice pair of chords would fit right in at this point. Lemme just record this line...

[click]

Hmm... Choose a file? No, I just wanted to record a few notes.

[click click...click]

What the... I must save this to a file?

[click click click...]

Where should I organize my miditracks? Perhaps I should save the whole project into a folder and save the midi file there... Hmmm... But then I have to create folders each time I want to record some notes...

[click click type type]

Now... Where was I?

, your a funny guy!

Hmmmm...... I just so happen to have ACID Pro 5 running, a project, in loop mode, on my DAW, right next to me. Let me see.......................

Hmm... A nice pair of chords would fit right in at this point. Lemme just record this line...

Click on the Synth Bus and from the Synth Plugin Chooser box that pops up, I choose the N.I. B4, press the enter key, and presto, the B4 sits enticingly, in it's window, in front of me.
Press the record button (Ctrl/R), Record Dialog Box pops up, press Record, and away you go.....done. Highlight the just recorded MIDI clip and press Alt+6,(MIDI Piano Roll window pops up), now you can edit it, as ACID loops playback.

You have the option to "Autoname new MIDI Tracks" and set the "New MIDI" default folder beforehand in ACID 5's Preferences.

The MIDI is meant to be complimentary to the ACID loop-based paradigm. It is not designed to be a primary MIDI recording tool. ACID is first and foremost a Professional Loop-Based Music Composition and Production Tool. If your primary focus is MIDI production, then perhaps you need to look elsewhere. Or ReWire ACID 5 to SONAR 4 or Cubase SX3 and record your MIDI tracks that way. I do most of my MIDI in SONAR 4, if I need to do a quick MIDI track in ACID 5 though, I can do that to. ACID 5's MIDI is functional. Is it meant to replace a full blown MIDI sequencer like SONAR or Cubase, of course not, nor was it ever designed to. It is not it's primary focus. Hate to sound like a broken record, folks, but it is a Loop-Based Multi-Media Music Composition and Production Tool that can also do some MIDI & audio recording, but it's primary focus remains on using pre-existing media to create content.

omicrom · Post by **omicrom** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:28 am

Hit the nail on the head that time!!
I don't think the folks at Ableton are shaking in their boots. I personally do not use acid anymore because I found DrRex and his little Rex File loop Buddies to be much more fun. La la lala la la!!

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:56 am

omicrom wrote:I don't think the folks at Ableton are shaking in their boots.

Why should Ableton be shaking in their boots?

They are two very different apps, about the only thing they have in common is they both use audio loops. Nothing new there. ACID is not Live and Live is not ACID, period. Both products provide the tools that their users need to get what they need done. Let's just leave it that, shall we?

Cabinfever · Post by **Cabinfever** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:26 am

billybk1: you can sing the "acid & ableton; apples & oranges" song until the sky falls down. you might hope that by repeating it over & over again people will not put acid & ableton side by side. but the marketplace (judgeing by forum talk) thinks otherwise.

the fact is they compete directly in the loop-based composition market. by your reasoning nothing competes against anything else because they're different products ?!

as for midi, look what abletons done with their first release - they've delivered good functionality.

but acid midi is the absolute worst of any host out there. they've had two years to fix it up and done nothing.

again the excuse seems to be that "midi isn't the primary focus of acid". well how conveniant. i think lots of other apps could use that line - anything that's sub-standard crap is just called "not our apps primary focus".

i recall that "stability" wasn't acid4's primary focus

but there are positives to the release, like reverse function, and nested tracks, and bpm effects - and maybe some people will like those ni keyboards.

i still use acid but am sad to see they have dropped the ball for the second time. almost game over.

billybk1 · Post by **billybk1** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:04 pm

Cabinfever wrote:billybk1:
the fact is they compete directly in the loop-based composition market. by your reasoning nothing competes against anything else because they're different products ?!

Ableton may compete directly in the loop-based composition market, but other than providing wav/aiff support, it is a one trick pony when providing direct import/exports of your work to today's mass media society. ACID Pro 5 can actually extract audio .cda files, straight from a commercial CD, in a matter of seconds, ready for use and abuse

Hmmm.....I just created this killer track, now how do I get it out there so more people can actually hear it, without ever leaving the application, right from the timeline. Let me see, I could.....

Create, mix and encode my own Dolby Digital AC-3 5.1 surround sound mix, straight from the timeline. Now I'm already to go for the DVD audio.

I could burn a redbook standard 44/16 (DAO) CD, from the timeline. Now I've got a CD that people can actually listen to.

I think I'll go ahead and create some MP3's too, and while I'm at it, I'll encode a 320kpbs 44k file for high fidelity and a low res 96kpbs 44k file for faster transfer. All right from the timeline. While I'm at it, I'll tag my work (property marking) to protect my property rights. All ready to go for portable music devices and streaming audio.

While I'm at it, I got some killer video files, why don't I just open up an AVI, Quicktime, Mpeg 1 o 2 or even an exisitng Windows Media file, in ACID 5, scrub the exisiting audio, and score my own music video, using markers, with the ACID project I just completed and then I'll render it to an Mpeg 2, Avi, Quicktime 6 Mov., a RealMedia 9.rm and a Windows Media Video V9 .wvm, just to cover my bases.

Now with the advanced custom templates, for each format, I'll fine tune and adjust each media files properties (fps, window size, quality compression, audio bit rate, etc.) depending on the final export destination. Again, all straight from the timeline. Now you can actually hear AND see my music.

Now for good measure, I'll render out Windows Media Audio V9 .wma, AIFF and standard Wave files, all with their own custom templates too.

Let me see what I can do to render out my prized work in Live to:

aiff/wav

Well, like ACID Pro, at least they do offer 24/192 support.

as for midi, look what abletons done with their first release - they've delivered good functionality.

Great, now Live can finally compete with the big boy's and the rest of the full featured DAW's of the world. ACID Pro 5's MIDI functionality is meant to compliment, not circumvent, it's core paradigm of providing loop-based music composition and production tools for original music and media creation for mass media export. Again, ACID Pro 5, is not a full featured DAW, repeat after me, ACID is not, nor was, or ever will be a full featured DAW, no matter how many times you close your eyes and click your heels, ACID Pro 5, it is, what it is.

but acid midi is the absolute worst of any host out there. they've had two years to fix it up and done nothing.

If you want to record/edit a quick MIDI track or two and incorporate it into your ACID project, ACID Pro 5, is perfectly suitable for that task. Again, if you are looking, at ACID, as your main MIDI app, you need to look elsewhere. I'll do an odd track here and there, but I do most of my MIDI recording and editing, in SONAR 4.

again the excuse seems to be that "midi isn't the primary focus of acid". well how conveniant. i think lots of other apps could use that line - anything that's sub-standard crap is just called "not our apps primary focus".

It is not convenient, it is a fact. Nowhere does Sony, in it's literature or advertising tout ACID, as a MIDI recording and editng powerhouse, the end all, be all DAW killer, the swiss army knife of DAW recording, that you seem to want it to be.

i recall that "stability" wasn't acid4's primary focus

I don't know, ACID Pro 4f has worked out pretty well for me and been quite stable for what I want it to do, and now ACID Pro 5, is working even better

but there are positives to the release, like reverse function, and nested tracks, and bpm effects - and maybe some people will like those ni keyboards.

I'm glad you see something redeeming in this release.

i still use acid but am sad to see they have dropped the ball for the second time. almost game over.

On this, we will have to agree to disagree

I like this release far better than the last two. After having used ACID Pro 5, for a while now, I opened up ACID 4 and found myself looking and reaching for all the missing features and enhancements, that I had begun to take for granted in ACID Pro 5. I could not wait to close A4 and get back to work using ACID Pro 5 again.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:42 pm

billybk1 wrote: Ableton may compete directly in the loop-based composition market, but other than providing wav/aiff support, it is a one trick pony when providing direct import/exports of your work to today's mass media society. ACID Pro 5 can actually extract audio .cda files, straight from a commercial CD, in a matter of seconds, ready for use and abuse Hmmm.....I just created this killer track, now how do I get it out there so more people can actually hear it, without ever leaving the application, right from the timeline. Let me see, I could.....

Create, mix and encode my own Dolby Digital AC-3 5.1 surround sound mix, straight from the timeline. Now I'm already to go for the DVD audio.

I could burn a redbook standard 44/16 (DAO) CD, from the timeline. Now I've got a CD that people can actually listen to.

I think I'll go ahead and create some MP3's too, and while I'm at it, I'll encode a 320kpbs 44k file for high fidelity and a low res 96kpbs 44k file for faster transfer. All right from the timeline. While I'm at it, I'll tag my work (property marking) to protect my property rights. All ready to go for portable music devices and streaming audio.

While I'm at it, I got some killer video files, why don't I just open up an AVI, Quicktime, Mpeg 1 o 2 or even an exisitng Windows Media file, in ACID 5, scrub the exisiting audio, and score my own music video, using markers, with the ACID project I just completed and then I'll render it to an Mpeg 2, Avi, Quicktime 6 Mov., a RealMedia 9.rm and a Windows Media Video V9 .wvm, just to cover my bases. Now with the advanced custom templates, for each format, I'll fine tune and adjust each media files properties (fps, window size, quality compression, audio bit rate, etc.) depending on the final export destination. Again, all straight from the timeline. Now you can actually hear AND see my music.

Now for good measure, I'll render out Windows Media Audio V9 .wma, AIFF and standard Wave files, all with their own custom templates too.

Let me see what I can do to render out my prized work in Live to:

aiff/wav

Well, like ACID Pro, at least they do offer 24/192 support.

Ooo

ooo - Acid sounds just like Adobe Audition

Rajah · Post by **Rajah** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:56 pm

Ok, what about using Control surfaces in Acid 5.
Don't see at least 2 Vegas style chanel strips to "RECORD" vocals right into a project..

Cabinfever · Post by **Cabinfever** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:17 pm

all that "burning to x format" and "exporting to blah CD" is pretty well worthless imho. everyone these days has a decent burning app - nero or some of the many others out there.

that's redundant functionality and the tiniest of tiny benefits.

and my point about midi isn't that i expect it to be as good as logic or cubase, its that the midi functionality should actually work ! it is absolutely woeful.

now i'm sure you - as a beta tester - know every shortcut and detail about the app, but mere mortals wrestling with its arcane controls find it just laughable useless. there are plenty of frustrated references to acid midi here and on other forums.

i always thought the big strenth of acid was manipulating *audio* not just loops. the "chopper" tool has no equal.

but what has sony done ?

no additional functionality to the chopper, and nothing (other than sample reverse) to audio handling.

everything instead is skewed toward those damned annoying "loop packs" which they flog off and which no muso with self-respect would dream of using.

back to the future with acid, "the super-dooper-looper"

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:35 pm

I like drum loops.

Thank god my self-esteem is still intact, though I have to admit I've never referred to myself as a "muso", so I dunno if I count anyhow.

Greg

omicrom · Post by **omicrom** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:27 pm

Good one Lunch Money!! To Muso Or Not To Muso?
Anyway, Acid 3 and 4 Pro most assurredly competed with Ableton Live 1 and 2 but Live 3 left Acid in the dust and Live 4 is knocking down the doors on Cubase, Sonar and Logic. This basicly puts Acid 5
in a class of its own as it was when it was first released back in the day. Even at a "Pro" level, acid is really designed for audio loop based composition with soft synth and basic midi implementation as an extra afterthought embellishment of your created tunes. Now that it is also a REwire client/host, it has been reduced to a looping plugin to use in a power house midi sequencing host of your choice. I would say that acid is competing with Cakewalk Project 5 more than anything else.

jtxx000 · Post by **jtxx000** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:40 pm

At this point, I use it as a beatslicer type tool more than anything else. As for what it's competing with, maybe http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/1049.html ?

Rednroll · Post by **Rednroll** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:08 pm

As another Acid Pro 5.0 beta tester, I'ld like to let you know that a lot of of your viewpoints as far as Acid's midi sequencing limitations and audio input functionality are shared. The first beta I tried out, these where the first things I looked for and reacted quite similar to quite a few of you. These are requests that I had submitted prior to Acid 5.0's development. Sony has visited this forum among others to see what other users initial impressions of A5 were and they hear what you are saying. As Billybk1 is correct that Acid is not competing with Live or Sonar..etc....my feeling is that it should. If it's not competing against any other program, then who is it competing against? It's no longer in a class of it's own, although I agree it's the best looping sequencer available, but it's not the ONLY looping sequencer available, therefore it needs to compete in that market of other looping sequencers and take a serious look at those other looping sequencers additional functionality. This means it needs to expand it's midi sequencing capabilities and also move past it's 1 track at a time recording limitations. IMOP Sony has the best UI over any app in it's class. Maybe to maintain this superior UI Acid has to keep focused on it's forte of being a media looping sequencer. So my question to Sony was, "if Acid is not going to expand in it's midi sequencing features, then what are you going to develop that will?" Sony currently has no serious midi sequencing app and this is an important part of music creation by a lot of users as can be seen in this post and many other forums. They are aware of this fact, let's see how/if they react to it with an answer, either it being Acid 6, or a seperate sequencing app that can be rewired with Acid. Rome was not built in a day and Acid 5.0 did get some worthy features added to it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, Sony has not let me down yet.

Cabinfever · Post by **Cabinfever** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:32 am

now we wait for acidpro 6 !

nope, too late. i predict the app won't last that long.

even acid diehards seem really pissed with this release:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/f ... eID=328698

AcidPro 5 is here