KVR Audio

Toets · Post by **Toets** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:58 pm

So here is the main question...

What AU/VST’s will join apple on the ARM platform, and which one will not? And thats asuming all major DAW’s will make the jump..

Its hard to decide on buying a new mac for mainstage now, or waiting till the new ARM decides..

So i hope people have inside information about what and who will follow the apple switch..

paulm12 · Post by **paulm12** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:43 pm

Honestly I’m in the same boat, and I would say the smart move would be to get an Intel Mac if you’re a producer. (I’m waiting on the 2020 iMacs which will likely have a custom i9 10910).
Here’s the thing, music technology always lags behind a bit for compatibility reasons. Still many softwares aren’t (Officially) supported on Catalina.
Now, Rosetta 2 will supposedly recompile applications, and apparently Apple has said this includes binaries including plugins. However, I would still be wary of complete support for VSTs and AUs, which often rely on compiler settings to squeeze out extra performance. In other words, even if these plugins do run reliably (and that’s a huge “if”), theres a good chance performance will be worse than in its native x86 form. Especially until developers reconcile their plugins for ARM.
Apple has explicitly said Rosetta 2 will NOT support AVX, and Apple also doesn’t seem to give a sh!t about VSTs, so I’m not sure even VST support is something that’s even on Apple’s minds specifically.
The issue here is that x86-64 is a more CISC-based architecture, so instructions that can basically take one cycle or are part of the instruction set will have to be emulated, which can take a lot more cycles. Now hopefully, the clock speeds are high enough that it can make up for this, but I doubt it’s going to be perfect right out of the gate. If you’re concerned about compatibility, you DONT want to be a first adopter. Read about the fiasco that happened with the Surface Pro X that many users are having. Now, Apple is probably (hopefully) learning from Microsoft’s mistake, but to many this left a bad taste in peoples mouths about the transition to ARM.
My plan is to get a new Intel Mac this year or next, and in 5-7 years when it’s time to upgrade, likely most of the plugins I want will be translated to ARM, if there isn’t something else there by then. And that’s assuming Apple doesn’t decide to do something else.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:09 pm

Waiting??

If you always wait for new tech to arrive, you'd never buy anything. Not even a bottle of shampoo.

There is no date known when Arm-based macs will be in the shops. No price indication. The whole project could be canceled in some months, who knows. It's all rumours now.

Need something now? Then buy it now!
Bleeding edge tech is always dangerous.

legendCNCD · Post by **legendCNCD** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:19 pm

If I were to use macs for audio, I'd wait for at least 2 generations

Maybe everything starts to work then properly...
Then again there are other factors like does all the bought plugins work/be updated anymore on new arch or not etc.

Just a sidenote from the trenches or "oh god why"

echosystm · Post by **echosystm** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:46 pm

If you're using Logic, there's no reason not to upgrade straight away; everything will work out of the box, as it always does. That is why so many professionals use Macs and Logic.

Whether or not all your AUs will be updated will be down to each developer. I'll be selling any AUs that don't update in a timely manner; I have no interest in supporting companies that sit on their ass. Apple have made dev kits available well in advance of the new computers, so any competent company has ample time to update their software.

IMO, these new processors will be great and I want to take full advantage of it.

Chrisk-K · Post by **Chrisk-K** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:13 pm

I'm in the same boat. I was going to buy an i7 Mac Mini for only MIDI & audio purposes, but I'll need to see when Apple will introduce ARM-based Mac Minis. If ARM Mac Minis arrive 2 years from now, I will just buy a current Mini. If ARM Mac Minis will be available in early 2021, I can wait. This is not about being able to take advantage of the ARM. I wouldn't want my new Intel-based Mac Mini to become obsolete in a few years due to the lack of support of Intel-based AUs.

Haptix · Post by **Haptix** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:24 pm

T2 did not work and its been "out of the box" quite some time now, and its still not working properly. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments ... _external/

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:30 pm

It would be best to get a new intel Mac now that will last for five years and run everything than get a next gen Mac where you have to wait for devs to play catch up. By the time you need a new machine chances are everything, or most everything will have been updated to work on the ARM processor.

echosystm · Post by **echosystm** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:36 pm

The difference between Mac issues and PC issues is that the Mac issues are well documented, many people experience them and there is almost always workarounds.

Good luck finding a fix for hardware problems on a generic PC laptop that the manufacturer themselves put on life support 6 months after release. Do you have any idea how many PCs don't even have BIOS patches available for all the highly publicized Intel bugs? It's a shit show.

Haptix · Post by **Haptix** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:41 pm

echosystm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:36 pm The difference between Mac issues and PC issues is that the Mac issues are well documented, many people experience them and there is almost always workarounds.

- No there is not. Simple as that.

Good luck finding a fix for hardware problems on a generic PC laptop that the manufacturer themselves put on life support 6 months after release.

- Is that not tech moving forward?, like you said "I wont support companies sitting on their asses" What is there to fix for lets say after 5 - 6 years? Once it works, it works. No need for fixing.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:14 pm

Haptix wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:41 pm
echosystm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:36 pm The difference between Mac issues and PC issues is that the Mac issues are well documented, many people experience them and there is almost always workarounds.
- No there is not. Simple as that.

Good luck finding a fix for hardware problems on a generic PC laptop that the manufacturer themselves put on life support 6 months after release.
- Is that not tech moving forward?, like you said "I wont support companies sitting on their asses" What is there to fix for lets say after 5 - 6 years? Once it works, it works. No need for fixing.

Don't feed the Apple fanboy troll. He's talking out if his ass. And he has ZERO experience regarding Windows. It's just "hearsaying"

Anyone wit at least half a brain, if in need of a new mac, will run buy an Intel while it's possible. New ARM Macs, when they arrive, will be most probably even more lousy than what is now usual with Apple. Basically expensive paperweights

echosystm · Post by **echosystm** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:36 pm

Haptix wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:41 pm What is there to fix for lets say after 5 - 6 years? Once it works, it works. No need for fixing.

Meltdown and Spectre are the only arguments anyone needs to prove you wrong on this point.

Haptix · Post by **Haptix** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:43 pm

^Intel problems, question of choices unless you are on a Mac. Does not apply to what you posted "Good luck finding a fix for hardware problems on a generic PC laptop that the manufacturer themselves put on life support 6 months after release."

echosystm · Post by **echosystm** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:43 pm

fmr wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:14 pm Don't feed the Apple fanboy troll. He's talking out if his ass. And he has ZERO experience regarding Windows. It's just "hearsaying"

I wish I had less experience with Windows.

To be fair to Microsoft, most of the problems with the Windows ecosystem have nothing to do with them and everything to do with all the low quality hardware manufacturers, who abandon support for their products as soon as they possibly can.

Haptix · Post by **Haptix** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:53 pm

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8

ARM macs