KVR Audio

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:26 pm

therell be loads of odd notes lost down the back of sofas and in draws full of buttons and keys.
be plenty to keep going

plus we know how to grow them.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:01 pm

there's so much I don't know, but some things I see are kind of wild

I don't keep stuff, I couldn't if I wanted to. I did hold onto some scores from the 90s up through 2016, including a couple things I actually heard.
Most of it I would call very aspirational (rather than pragmatic), not worth caring a lot about.

Ya have to lose yer attachment.

GaryG · Post by **GaryG** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:13 pm

jancivil wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:06 pm Odd how the internet and fora encourage people with at best a really inchoate conception of things to write all this crap.
When I was at that level, there was no audience for how much I didn't know.

I think that's the funniest thing i've read online today, hats off to you Jan.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:33 pm

vurt wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:26 pm we know how to grow them.

If you got 'em, smoke 'em

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:04 pm

jancivil wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:33 pm
vurt wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:26 pm we know how to grow them.
If you got 'em, smoke 'em

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:26 pm

vurt wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:26 pm therell be loads of odd notes lost down the back of sofas and in draws full of buttons and keys.

I lost a B# last week ... can't find it anywhere.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:28 pm

thecontrolcentre wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:26 pm
vurt wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:26 pm therell be loads of odd notes lost down the back of sofas and in draws full of buttons and keys.

I lost a B# last week ... can't find it anywhere.

did it get out?
lot of open space up your way, it will go feral and find other notes and maybe breed a good population for you

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:35 pm

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:52 pm

TLDR the OP but out of curiosity and from the title: When does it say we run out of major and minor scales? Is there an expiration date attached to them?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:21 pm

GaryG wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:13 pm
jancivil wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:06 pm Odd how the internet and fora encourage people with at best a really inchoate conception of things to write all this crap.
When I was at that level, there was no audience for how much I didn't know.
I think that's the funniest thing i've read online today, hats off to you Jan.

Thank you. We'll be here all week.

I remember hearing a guy at willard park "my encyclopedic ignorance..." one day.
mmhmm

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:27 pm

The points in the video are rather inane. I recognize that guy from his fairly hilarious look at Sibelius, the notation program. I've started to watch others but they're not as funny, and now we look at it more critically.
He acts as though he understands a bit more about his chosen subject matter than is... evident in this presentation, afaic.

What we can distinguish as musical intervals compared one to the next is, in fact finite. but what is this limit? Have we studied this? Because where he goes immediately with it seems to indicate his premise is f**ked (and it sure looks like the conclusion is only going to show the premise); like this limit for him is not really the technical limit, and more like '12 tones' when a scientific approach is going to give you say *53*. Then do we look at rhythm? TL;DR? Music is infinite, dumbass. You can't really reduce a string bend to discrete pitches because it's infinite.

The entertainment value, well he's trying but life is short.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:35 pm

Even if music was finite (which it ain't, ofc) and we recycle it endlessly, who says it ain't enjoyable enough as such? There is no problem really, unless you invent it. Thought-experiment failure. Over an out.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:39 pm

and there's that

I could be wrong about his actual assessment of how many, but the next thing was we're running out of ideas in the world because there are such limits on the material. I actually work with inbetween pitches extensively, he isn't going to predict what's happening, the real limit is him.

it's similar to the notion I saw here one day, 'there are no new sounds'. Intellectually incurious, is all I get from that kind of 'thinking'.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:01 pm

Yeah, the day we run out scales will be the day we run out of letters in the alphabet.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:30 pm

Well, the # of discrete pitches being finite, the number of scales is going to follow. Unless I've missed something. First thing we have to look at if we're critical is WHAT IS THIS LIMIT. This isn't exactly settled. Alain Danielou pretty much states *53* to an octave and shows his work. This is within one octave. Look at the overtone series as a set as though a scale and now we have some idea...

Here's one thing that is missing: the musical use of a lot of that 53 isn't that you're going to fit to a scale. Gestures, nuances, color, mood created by the different inflections.

So now, the question is not how many scales, but how fine can your expression be? What is the limit on the variances?
Consider a Hindustani Raag on a sarod, a fretless instrument where you can slide around and locate finer things than semitones, the raag's parent scale is going to be something quite other than a scale on a fixed basis such as can be captured close to 100% in standard notation. And one player's version is not the next player's version, there is no universal conception of it (there are, however, schools). Or, just bending pitch on a fretted instrument: there is a Anoushka Shankar track where she consistently accurately hits 3 pitches between semitones, very prominent part of the melody. IE: between E and F including E there are 3 discrete pitches. Jeff Beck does some things...

But to go from <there's only so many scales> to <there's only so much music (or new ideas) possible> is non-sequitur, leaving out so many factors.
Confer Malcolm Braff's investigation of microrhythm.

Nah, who cares, Dude's pandering to pop music world.

When we run out of Major and Minor scales?