Bitwig The Grid: It is just me...

[moss]

You can also put it before the VST as a sequencer/arm/modulator

I'm pretty sure Grid still doesn't output MIDI, or have I missed some upgrade?

Is this true? I was looking at switching to bitwig specifically for the grid but this would be a dealbreaker for me - I want the modular sequencing environment but soundwise I like my current VSTs.

There is a workaround for that problem. See here:
https://answers.bitwig.com/questions/21 ... be-modular

[SLiC]

For people who don’t click links,,,,

There's Replacer Device for converting audio to MIDI, you just have to place it in Grid FX slot, so you can modulate it's parameters with Grid and thus determine velocity, note, etc. You can either use audio output for sending gate triggers, or modulator out to DC offset device in parallel. But you have to also block audio output of those gate signals, perhaps by placing empty FX Layers device. And to pull the generated MIDI from the Grid FX chain you'll need Note Receiver.

[pdxindy]

That's all too complicated and user unfriendly. I would not recommend someone get Bitwig to use the Grid as a sequencing environment for VST synths.

If I want to use Bitwig for some complex sequencing (besides just using launcher clips), regular Bitwig devices and modulators work better for outputting notes.

[foosnark]

I agree that a way to output MIDI from Grid would be extremely welcome -- particularly to enable CV to MIDI conversion. Modular sequencing can be really fun and inspiring and leads to results that MIDI piano roll sequencing doesn't.

[pdxindy]

I agree that a way to output MIDI from Grid would be extremely welcome -- particularly to enable CV to MIDI conversion. Modular sequencing can be really fun and inspiring and leads to results that MIDI piano roll sequencing doesn't.

Bitwig is itself a modular environment that contains the Grid. What is already possible using current Bitwig devices and modulators is nearly unlimited.

[MitchK1989]

I agree that a way to output MIDI from Grid would be extremely welcome -- particularly to enable CV to MIDI conversion. Modular sequencing can be really fun and inspiring and leads to results that MIDI piano roll sequencing doesn't.

Bitwig is itself a modular environment that contains the Grid. What is already possible using current Bitwig devices and modulators is nearly unlimited.

yes, and you can't even use that grid to sequence something like zebra 2 without a hacky audio to midi converter in between. CV to midi would be awesome both for the built in modular sequencing of bitwig AND for converting modular sequencing from hardware modular sequencing.

[pdxindy]

I agree that a way to output MIDI from Grid would be extremely welcome -- particularly to enable CV to MIDI conversion. Modular sequencing can be really fun and inspiring and leads to results that MIDI piano roll sequencing doesn't.

Bitwig is itself a modular environment that contains the Grid. What is already possible using current Bitwig devices and modulators is nearly unlimited.

yes, and you can't even use that grid to sequence something like zebra 2 without a hacky audio to midi converter in between. CV to midi would be awesome both for the built in modular sequencing of bitwig AND for converting modular sequencing from hardware modular sequencing.

Sure... I also look forward to when there is a Midi Grid device. Which will come eventually.

My suggestion is that as is, forget trying to use the Grid to sequence Zebra. Use regular devices and modulators. Even without the Grid there are a huge range of sequencing possibilities!

[dehuszar]

Yep, amazing design. Just wish the oscillators didn't sound like plastic toy oscillators. A more analog sound like Reaktor blocks oscs would be cool.

Huh. Totally not my experience. I'm in the process of selling my SonicCore DSPs in favor of a Bitwig heavy workflow because, aside from the speed in getting to the sounds and arrangements I want, I have been able to replicate the warmth of those DSPs well enough in Grid.

It's just a matter of saturating and exciting the sound on your own using all the tools at your disposal. More work, true, but the preset system makes it really easy to create quick boilerplate configs to build off. The same cannot be said of the DSPs. I will never be able to get the same ultra clean sine waves out of them.

And more, I have no desire to load up on VST synths at all. Bitwigs core synths are fine, but 90% of the time I just go into The Grid.

U-He's Satin and Twang, and Modartt's Pianoteq are the only VSTs I've needed to fill out the other sounds I want.

...and I'm doing it all in Linux

[Echoes in the Attic]

Yep, amazing design. Just wish the oscillators didn't sound like plastic toy oscillators. A more analog sound like Reaktor blocks oscs would be cool.

Huh. Totally not my experience. I'm in the process of selling my SonicCore DSPs in favor of a Bitwig heavy workflow because, aside from the speed in getting to the sounds and arrangements I want, I have been able to replicate the warmth of those DSPs well enough in Grid.

It's just a matter of saturating and exciting the sound on your own using all the tools at your disposal. More work, true, but the preset system makes it really easy to create quick boilerplate configs to build off. The same cannot be said of the DSPs. I will never be able to get the same ultra clean sine waves out of them.

And more, I have no desire to load up on VST synths at all. Bitwigs core synths are fine, but 90% of the time I just go into The Grid.

U-He's Satin and Twang, and Modartt's Pianoteq are the only VSTs I've needed to fill out the other sounds I want.

...and I'm doing it all in Linux

Fair enough. I was probably a bit harsh. I just never found the grid to sound particularly analog, either from me messing around or any factory presets. Some of the filters aren’t bad, especially that latest one they added. But I always prefer the sound of realtor blocks. And every other analog modeled vst that I have.

[dehuszar]

No worries. Everyone's after different tones and workflows. I have just found that Bitwig is not in the business of giving everyone the "popular" sounds, and is more interested in delivering the "best primitives" for people to work with. And the more comfortable I got with that perspective, the further I was able to take what I was working on.

They strike me as very UNIX-y people. Probably why they are among the few champions of Linux support in this space; which has always been weird to me. Linux seems like the best OS for sound and instrument design. Not because the Linux audio transport layers (jack, alsa, pulseaudio) are the most mature, they're not, but because the ability to deliver a completely customizable experience without the rest of the OS getting in the way is so close at hand in the Linux world. So many embedded audio devices that are based on RPi's or similarly spec'd ARM boards are coming to market. I think a little bit better ARM support by the audio world would blow the whole thing wide open.

Speaking of which... Bitwig developers, if you're listening, ARM support would be amazing

[bmanic]

Fair enough. I was probably a bit harsh. I just never found the grid to sound particularly analog, either from me messing around or any factory presets. Some of the filters aren’t bad, especially that latest one they added. But I always prefer the sound of realtor blocks. And every other analog modeled vst that I have.

To be fair though, Reaktor blocks sound absolutely amazing. Especially the basic filters and oscillators. However, they also cost TONS in CPU resources. I suspect Bitwig doesn't want people to run out of CPU for a few notes of basic oscillators and filters when there is a whole DAW to be run at the same time.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Fair enough. I was probably a bit harsh. I just never found the grid to sound particularly analog, either from me messing around or any factory presets. Some of the filters aren’t bad, especially that latest one they added. But I always prefer the sound of realtor blocks. And every other analog modeled vst that I have.

To be fair though, Reaktor blocks sound absolutely amazing. Especially the basic filters and oscillators. However, they also cost TONS in CPU resources. I suspect Bitwig doesn't want people to run out of CPU for a few notes of basic oscillators and filters when there is a whole DAW to be run at the same time.

Yes true. Bitwig grid is polyphonic afterall, so having Blocks level cpu usage wouldn't work very well. But I'm not talking about just Reaktor. I also prefer the oscillators in other polyphonic synths as well, like u-he, TAL, GForce, ANA2. They aren't always especially cpu demanding.

But one of the things that is especially nice about Blocks is the sound of the audio rate modulations. But I think that is where the cpu use really comes in.

[pdxindy]

Fair enough. I was probably a bit harsh. I just never found the grid to sound particularly analog, either from me messing around or any factory presets. Some of the filters aren’t bad, especially that latest one they added. But I always prefer the sound of realtor blocks. And every other analog modeled vst that I have.

To be fair though, Reaktor blocks sound absolutely amazing. Especially the basic filters and oscillators. However, they also cost TONS in CPU resources. I suspect Bitwig doesn't want people to run out of CPU for a few notes of basic oscillators and filters when there is a whole DAW to be run at the same time.

Yeah... I can easily set polyphony to 24 voices or more in the Grid. For the Grid, I prefer the polyphony. So I can do stuff like make a harp sound and sweep all the 'strings' and no note drop out/voice stealing.

And one can get pleasing dynamic sounds in the Grid... needs to be done on purpose cause it's not built in. Drive the filter a bit, modulate it, etc. and it can sound lively and present.

Also, Grid presets can sound quite good completely dry cause it is a full stereo signal path. One can get good movement at the per voice level. I find the Grid practical and sonically useful.

[Ah_Dziz]

I am enjoying it quite a bit. It is the closest to a Nord modular (sound wise) that I’ve found in software. There are some irritating workarounds (feedback paths etc) that I think they could implement with no user input, but all around it is my favorite modular system implemented on the daw so far. Also, for folks wanting a more quirky “analog” type sound, try experimenting with generating resonance through feedback and playing with some nonlinear shaping. You would be surprised how much it will change the character of the most “vanilla” filters.

[antic604]

Speaking of which... Bitwig developers, if you're listening, ARM support would be amazing

I'm pretty sure they're already on it. Propellerhead (Reason devs) got their ARM MacMini devkit few months ago, so Bitwig guys did too