Honest question for mac users
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 31 posts since 7 Jan, 2019
Right. I just want to start by saying that I in no way want to be rude, snobby, etc., I'm honestly just interested. Also, before anyone thinks of calling me a fanboy, I have used Windows, Mac, and Linux all for pretty long periods of time, so I'm not just bashing Mac without having experienced it. Also, please read all of this before responding.
I get all the talk about build quality, reliability, core audio > DirectX with mac OS etc. But I believe this isn't true: All Apple's computers are impossible to fix and upgrade yourself and their laptops thermal throttle to hell, and ASIO is literally the exact same thing as core audio, albeit with an unnoticeable amount more lag.
I do know mac OS has way less background processes, but for the price of an entry level mac, you can get a PC so good it is unaffected by this anyway, same for ASIO's lag. Example:
My current laptop (£999):
I7 - 9750h (6 cores, 12 threads, 2.7 ghz, boosts to 4, and no it doesnt thermal throttle), 8GB DDR4 - 2666, 256GB NVME SSD, RTX 2060 (better GPU than anything in an apple laptop RN, and it does make a difference for music for anyone who uses Serum as it is GPU - accelerated), so light I can't tell whether it's in my bag or not.
Equivalent price macbook (entry level macbook air):
1.1GHZ dual core i3 that turbos to 3.2ghz (but wont bc it literally isnt cooled at all, as in the heat pipes do not reach the CPU), 8GB DDR4 - 3733 (I know what you're thinking, but RAM speed is proven not to make a big performance difference in anything but GPU - intensive tasks and thats only if you have an iGPU), 256GB non - NVME SSD, no GPU whatsoever (weak integrated graphics). Being light is the only positive I can think of, but mine is unnoticeably light anyway.
And there's more. Mac OS is harder to fix problems with and in my few months of using it I came across more of them than I have in 11 years of Windows usage (such as files and apps behaving weirdly), less intuitive to use (again I used it for months so it's not that I didn't take the time to learn the basics), you actually still can get malware on mac OS (only time I've ever gotten it was on mac), and there's more but this is already getting really long, and I'd rathewr hear what you have to say first. So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac (if you're using a DAW that isn't logic, I know why you'd want one if you use that obviously)?
Edit: Just making absolutely sure everyone is aware I'm asking out of interest, not to bash people's personal choices.
I get all the talk about build quality, reliability, core audio > DirectX with mac OS etc. But I believe this isn't true: All Apple's computers are impossible to fix and upgrade yourself and their laptops thermal throttle to hell, and ASIO is literally the exact same thing as core audio, albeit with an unnoticeable amount more lag.
I do know mac OS has way less background processes, but for the price of an entry level mac, you can get a PC so good it is unaffected by this anyway, same for ASIO's lag. Example:
My current laptop (£999):
I7 - 9750h (6 cores, 12 threads, 2.7 ghz, boosts to 4, and no it doesnt thermal throttle), 8GB DDR4 - 2666, 256GB NVME SSD, RTX 2060 (better GPU than anything in an apple laptop RN, and it does make a difference for music for anyone who uses Serum as it is GPU - accelerated), so light I can't tell whether it's in my bag or not.
Equivalent price macbook (entry level macbook air):
1.1GHZ dual core i3 that turbos to 3.2ghz (but wont bc it literally isnt cooled at all, as in the heat pipes do not reach the CPU), 8GB DDR4 - 3733 (I know what you're thinking, but RAM speed is proven not to make a big performance difference in anything but GPU - intensive tasks and thats only if you have an iGPU), 256GB non - NVME SSD, no GPU whatsoever (weak integrated graphics). Being light is the only positive I can think of, but mine is unnoticeably light anyway.
And there's more. Mac OS is harder to fix problems with and in my few months of using it I came across more of them than I have in 11 years of Windows usage (such as files and apps behaving weirdly), less intuitive to use (again I used it for months so it's not that I didn't take the time to learn the basics), you actually still can get malware on mac OS (only time I've ever gotten it was on mac), and there's more but this is already getting really long, and I'd rathewr hear what you have to say first. So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac (if you're using a DAW that isn't logic, I know why you'd want one if you use that obviously)?
Edit: Just making absolutely sure everyone is aware I'm asking out of interest, not to bash people's personal choices.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 31 posts since 7 Jan, 2019
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 31 posts since 7 Jan, 2019
Nope, looks like ur just gna swear at me, then downvote my reply because you can't beat it. You're not very civil for someone with civil in their username...Dafydd Powell wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:44 amNope, not trolling its a genuine question. Do you want to debunk any of the things I said or are you just gonna call it bullshit with no proof?
- KVRAF
- 2147 posts since 30 Oct, 2006 from Australia, NSW
Ok out of interest It took me approximately 15 mins to add 64GB of Ram to my Mac Pro to give a total of 112 GB of Ram.It has a 16 Core Xeon processor not an I something works all day in the studio.Is totally silent even when running large projects in Live and Logic.I use many other applications such as Affinty Designer and Photo,Final Cut Pro etc .It is the best computer ive had period, powerful as hell, user upgradable and to build the exact same spec PC machine would cost very little less.There are many videos on this topic so forget the overpriced argument.If your happy with your current computer then have fun make some music because I do and have many releases on many labels as well as independent Bandcamp releases.Its the creativity that really counts in the end not PC/Mac discussions .Keep pushing and have fun.
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- KVRAF
- 25051 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
There is a chance you got a lemon (I did around 3 yrs ago), but all of six posts at a forum and this was a good idea to you, to post a great wall of text (which in the end looks like a rhetorical question; who on earth would use a platform like this being the statement), it looks like what it looks like. Flame war beckons at an internet forum, we notice it's *not one you frequent*.
There is also a chance you're an incredibly poor manager of things if not a complete incompetent. Not assuming either, but the story is highly improbable, particularly in the willingness to look like you have no idea how to run the computer. At the least, there are ways to learn things which don't look like this. It doesn't look like the honest curiosity you assert, at_all.
There is also a chance you're an incredibly poor manager of things if not a complete incompetent. Not assuming either, but the story is highly improbable, particularly in the willingness to look like you have no idea how to run the computer. At the least, there are ways to learn things which don't look like this. It doesn't look like the honest curiosity you assert, at_all.
Last edited by jancivil on Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
- KVRAF
- 2169 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa
@Daffyd Powell, you're new here, so I'll take this opportunity to let you know that "Mac vs. PC" threads don't go down well on KVR and tend to get shut down quickly by the admins -- and for good reason too, since they usually turn brutal and bloody.
I'm not on either side; I'm just letting you know that this probably won't last long and may do a lot more damage than you anticipated.
Steve
EDIT: Changed "OPs" to "admins". Oops!
I'm not on either side; I'm just letting you know that this probably won't last long and may do a lot more damage than you anticipated.
Steve
EDIT: Changed "OPs" to "admins". Oops!
Last edited by planetearth on Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 31 posts since 7 Jan, 2019
Sorry that I have things to do in my life and don't have 9,999,999,999 posts on KVR. Everyone starts somewhere, and I thought this'd be the best place to ask a quetsion, from a musician to other musicians. Agh, I'm getting too aggresive. Sorry I annoyed you, would you actually like to state any facts or just insult me based on nothing whatsoever?jancivil wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:58 am There is a chance you got a lemon (I did around 3 yrs ago), but all of six posts at a forum and this was a good idea to you, to post a great wall of text (which in the end looks like a rhetorical question; who on earth would use a platform like this being the statement), it looks like what it looks like. Flame war beckons at an internet forum, we notice it's *not one you frequent*.
There is also a chance you're an incredibly poor manager of things if not a complete incompetent. Not assuming either, but the story is highly improbable. At the least, there are ways to learn things which don't look like this. It doesn't look like the honest curiosity you assert, at_all.
As for that incompetent thing, I may not have a degree ut I was near the top of my computer scinece class for GCSE (I'm Bristish), and I know 4 programming languages, and so I don't think I'm too stupid to use a computer for everysay use. As for that lemon thing, it could be true, but I've used someone else's (my dad's) macbook before and had similar results, and if the only 2 I've used are both lemons then it really isn't a good sign is it? (I know, I may just be extremely unlucky tbf)
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 31 posts since 7 Jan, 2019
Hi Steve, thanks for telling me this and I'm sorry. I was just genuinely interested is all, never meant to start a bloodbath. I won't do something like this again. Thanks for being polite and reasonable.planetearth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:02 am @Daffyd Powell, you're new here, so I'll take this opportunity to let you know that "Mac vs. PC" threads don't go down well on KVR and tend to get shut down quickly by the OPs -- and for good reason too, since they usually turn brutal and bloody.
I'm not on either side; I'm just letting you know that this probably won't last long and may do a lot more damage than you anticipated.
Steve
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 31 posts since 7 Jan, 2019
Thanks for being civil. I was talking mainly about the laptops, I do see your perspective on the mac pro but since I've never robbed a bank before it's not the sort of thing I have in my reach. However, the fact remains that you can still get a slightly better deal from a PC, albeit not by much. I do also know that mac pros are upgradeable, I meant the macs most people buy (iMac, macbook pro, etc.).risome wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:57 am Ok out of interest It took me approximately 15 mins to add 64GB of Ram to my Mac Pro to give a total of 112 GB of Ram.It has a 16 Core Xeon processor not an I something works all day in the studio.Is totally silent even when running large projects in Live and Logic.I use many other applications such as Affinty Designer and Photo,Final Cut Pro etc .It is the best computer ive had period, powerful as hell, user upgradable and to build the exact same spec PC machine would cost very little less.There are many videos on this topic so forget the overpriced argument.If your happy with your current computer then have fun make some music because I do and have many releases on many labels as well as independent Bandcamp releases.Its the creativity that really counts in the end not PC/Mac discussions .Keep pushing and have fun.
BTW, I meant strictly for music. I am fully aware that for things like video editing mac os is better, and has way better implementation of HDR, etc.
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- KVRAF
- 3477 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England
The fundamental problem here is that you're assuming people buy Apple because it's superior hardware. They aren't, because it isn't. They buy Apple because it runs the software and/or OS they want to use. Ditto iPhone/iPad.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 31 posts since 7 Jan, 2019
I can understand that, but I know people who swear by iOS and Macs and don't seem to use any exclusive software. I should've put this in the original post, but I meant this question only for people who don't want mac - exclusive sofwtare. I completely get why you'd buy a mac if you did want that.
- Rad Grandad
- 38044 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine
planetearth wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:02 am @Daffyd Powell, you're new here, so I'll take this opportunity to let you know that "Mac vs. PC" threads don't go down well on KVR and tend to get shut down quickly by the admins -- and for good reason too, since they usually turn brutal and bloody.
I'm not on either side; I'm just letting you know that this probably won't last long and may do a lot more damage than you anticipated.
Steve
EDIT: Changed "OPs" to "admins". Oops!
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
- GRRRRRRR!
- 15846 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
That's the same amount of time it took me on my laptop recently, less than a year after I bought it, without voiding the warranty.
That's simply not true. A new MacPro is way more expensive than an equivalent spec HP Z Series workstation which, itself, is probably twice the price of building your own. For example, the cheapest MacPro you can buy here in Australia is Au$9,999. The equivalent HP Z8 workstation is Au$8,452 and it comes with 3 years of next day, on site warranty service. Of course, if the cheapest MacPro exceeds your needs, HP's entry level Z workstations are less than three grand (Australian), so you only have to buy as much performance as you need. Then, of course, you don't have to buy HP if you don't want to - Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Acer and others provide plenty of competition. At retail you should normally expect to be able to get 20% off without having to do more than ask for a good price. If you really want to turn the screws, 30% or more is pretty easily attained.It has a 16 Core Xeon processor not an I something works all day in the studio.Is totally silent even when running large projects in Live and Logic.I use many other applications such as Affinty Designer and Photo,Final Cut Pro etc .It is the best computer ive had period, powerful as hell, user upgradable and to build the exact same spec PC machine would cost very little less.
In a real world example, my company is in the throes of moving to a brand new office, after more than 50 years at our current site. The decision was made three years ago, when the land here was sold, to replace al our computers when we move. So last year IT started looking around for replacements for the MacPros we currently have (about half are trash bin style, the rest are older than that) and they discovered that getting new Macs would cost more than twice as much as buying equivalent PCs, because PC vendors seem to prefer to do big deals where Apple don't seem to care much. So we are all moving to brand new Z Series workstations when we move. I got mine late last year as a test-bed and the performance difference for After Effects and Cinema 4D is amazing. Renders take literally half the time they were taking on my trash-bin MacPro. Most of that is down to proper, professional level nVidia Quadro graphics, which simply cannot be beaten. Reliability is also way higher.
This comes across as you understanding you have no justification, yet not being able to acknowledge that simple fact. I don't understand why it is so hard to admit that you know you paid way more than you probably needed to but that you are happy with your decision regardless.There are many videos on this topic so forget the overpriced argument. If your happy with your current computer then have fun make some music because I do and have many releases on many labels as well as independent Bandcamp releases.Its the creativity that really counts in the end not PC/Mac discussions .Keep pushing and have fun.
After all, it's really not that different to paying a premium for a luxury car badge, even though much cheaper cars are probably just as good. People have no trouble identifying themselves as "Mercedes" men or "Audi" people, but "Apple" people seem way less confident in their decision making for some reason.
Perhaps it is just harder to justify? Mind you, even if Macs were cheaper than PCs, I'd still see more value in a PC because my experiences have been consistently better on the PC side of the fence and I get so much more choice when it comes to which applications I want to use.
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