Honest question for mac users

[chk071]

Couldn't care less about Macs. I'd rather switch to Chrome OS, if it would give me the same experience as a Windows PC... it doesn't, so.

[revvy]

Couldn't care less about Macs. I'd rather switch to Chrome OS, if it would give me the same experience as a Windows PC... it doesn't, so.

So why post this in a thread called 'Honest question for mac users"? Honest question, of course.

[chk071]

Because it exists.

[revvy]

Serial gatecrasher.

[abi]

...I think people like me just get a Macbook because of the MacOS.

this. and imacs and macpros.

[Michael L]

...I think people like me just get a Macbook because of the MacOS.

this. and imacs and macpros.

this. and mac minis that you can daisy chain w/ 10Gb ethernet so your old ones become Kontakt servers to your new ones and make obsolescence obsolete

[keyman_sam]

Being a PC user all my life and having switched over to Mac, it wasn't a smooth transition. There were issues with my Macs as well, to a surprising degree. Audio stutters (Hello T2), software that won't run on a Mac, random crashes in Logic, terrible SSD performance depending on how you format it, dongle hell, you name it. The oh-so-familiar issues with PC happened on a Mac as well, just to a lesser degree.

I'll tell you what's changed: There's no time wasted in second guessing the problematic configuration. The hardware is taken out of the equation. Any recent MacBook pro is "good enough". And when you do get issues, it's likely seen by others too so A). You know you're not alone B). the issue is probably known and being looked at, or has workarounds

The common configuration of HW + SW shared by the millions of users make it easier to debug, root cause issues and discuss potential fixes/workarounds. SW makers also take your feedback seriously and it's probably easier for them to repro your issue. Mac, or any complex HW/SW is NOT immune to bugs. It's just that if I'm going to face issues, I'd rather be on a Mac than on a PC.

After nearly a year of having switched, my only regret is not switching to Mac years earlier.

[Dafydd Powell]

OP, great thread!

Thanks! (Not sarcasm right?)

EDIT : Ignore this I only jusrt saw your reply sry

[Dafydd Powell]

Alright, fine, I’ll bite.
I used PCs for years, and always had problems with lemons, having to reinstall operating systems, etc. I thought this was part of what it meant to own a computer. I got my first MacBook Pro in the late 2000s because I wanted Logic. First solid computer I ever got, and I still have it and it works with no problems (over a decade old). I have had other MacBooks and Mac Desktops since then, also with very few to no problems (although I do think Apple’s engineering has gone down a bit recently and don’t plan on switching to ARM at any time).
As for cost, it doesn’t make sense to compare a build-your-own PC to a customized Mac. If you compare a similarly pre-built PC to a Mac, you’ll end up with a much smaller gap, with Macs being more expensive of course. However, if you factor in TCO (total cost of ownership), you get that PCs are 3 times the cost to manage and have twice the number of support calls on average.
For music production, I think Macs are the clear winner (for YEARS I ran FL and Live on a MacBook Pro running Windows XP because Vista was a fiasco, it was the best running windows computer I ever had). They have a better internal soundcard than most windows computers with comparatively less latency. Most PC users have to get an external soundcard, especially when it comes to laptops. With a Mac, it is nice to not have to bring an interface when traveling.
When you buy a Mac, you know what you’re getting. No BS bloatware, no cheap components or corners cut on the audio side, and good support if you ever do have a problem. With a PC, you can get bounced back between Microsoft and your CSM (Computer System Manufacturers) when you run into a problem
If you do any sort of development, I find that a Unix-based operating system is a clear winner. Yeah you can argue about Powershell and OS/2 all you want, but Unix is better in a lot of ways in my opinion. Plus its familiar for those of us who do work on servers.
To me, the big drawback to OSX is simply software support, however for me the pros far outweigh the cons.
With a Mac, if you do decide to upgrade, you can restore your entire system (VSTs and all) to its previous state without having to edit any registry files or reinstall anything. You get integration with cloud backup (although iCloud now works with windows), which keeps all my performance laptops/backups in sync with each other whenever I add a song to one. If you’re recording, you can be pretty sure the computer you get will be QUIET.
I like not building my own computer because that means if I ever do have a problem nobody can blame anything I did. I can go on and on. People make great music on both Macs and Windows. If you don’t like Macs, fine, but those of us who do have our reasons

Hi, I am fully aware that PCs used to be bad. It's actually only been since 2017 or 18 that they are really good, I do have to admit that I used to just accept the issues and deal with them. However, the problems were never that hard to deal with. Also, bloatware is exceedingly less common on Windows now than it used to be, and it literally takes 2 minutes to remove it all if you do have any in the first place. It seems like the way PCs used to be has gotten their reputation down a lot over the years, because Windows 10's security nowadays is actually excellent, as is its reliability, etc. But I see where you are coming from, I too have owned a Vista machine and yeah it wasn't good to say the least. Neither was 8 imo.

I know unix - based devices have their fair share of things that are just better for things such as development, this question was strictly for music production. The sound card issue is much rarer these days on all but the cheapest laptops (and certainly on ones that cost as much as even the cheapest macbook money can buy). Macs are quiet, sure. But that tends to be because the CPU isn't being cooled properly. I would rather get a PC and configure it to be quieter (through fan curve configuration, which surprisingly tends not to void your warranty), and then still have a small chance of my CPU running at speeds that are not below its base clock, but I get that this is a hassle and would deter some people who just want to make music without becoming half an IT technician. However, quiet and even fanless laptops can be purchased too, but I will give you that you have to go to the effort of finding them, which you don't with apple because they only make 2 laptops. My dad's 2016 15" macbook pro is actually the loudest laptop I've ever heard by the way, and that isn't a joke. But i guess he must have got a lemon.

As for your interface not being needed on travels debate, how so? If you want to use an XLR mic, you'll need one anyway, and if what you're doing is DJing or just playing back, you don't need one as you either would be absolutely fine without it (in the case of playing back), or would have an interface built in to your DJ controller as most decent ones do.

Interested to hear your reply. Thank you for considering my arguments and presenting your own instead of just accusing me of trying to start flame wars.

[Dafydd Powell]

Right. I just want to start by saying that I in no way want to be rude, snobby, etc., I'm honestly just interested. Also, before anyone thinks of calling me a fanboy, I have used Windows, Mac, and Linux all for pretty long periods of time, so I'm not just bashing Mac without having experienced it. Also, please read all of this before responding.

I get all the talk about build quality, reliability, core audio > DirectX with mac OS etc. But I believe this isn't true: All Apple's computers are impossible to fix and upgrade yourself and their laptops thermal throttle to hell, and ASIO is literally the exact same thing as core audio, albeit with an unnoticeable amount more lag.

I do know mac OS has way less background processes, but for the price of an entry level mac, you can get a PC so good it is unaffected by this anyway, same for ASIO's lag. Example:

My current laptop (£999):
I7 - 9750h (6 cores, 12 threads, 2.7 ghz, boosts to 4, and no it doesnt thermal throttle), 8GB DDR4 - 2666, 256GB NVME SSD, RTX 2060 (better GPU than anything in an apple laptop RN, and it does make a difference for music for anyone who uses Serum as it is GPU - accelerated), so light I can't tell whether it's in my bag or not.

Equivalent price macbook (entry level macbook air):
1.1GHZ dual core i3 that turbos to 3.2ghz (but wont bc it literally isnt cooled at all, as in the heat pipes do not reach the CPU), 8GB DDR4 - 3733 (I know what you're thinking, but RAM speed is proven not to make a big performance difference in anything but GPU - intensive tasks and thats only if you have an iGPU), 256GB non - NVME SSD, no GPU whatsoever (weak integrated graphics). Being light is the only positive I can think of, but mine is unnoticeably light anyway.

And there's more. Mac OS is harder to fix problems with and in my few months of using it I came across more of them than I have in 11 years of Windows usage (such as files and apps behaving weirdly), less intuitive to use (again I used it for months so it's not that I didn't take the time to learn the basics), you actually still can get malware on mac OS (only time I've ever gotten it was on mac), and there's more but this is already getting really long, and I'd rathewr hear what you have to say first. So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac (if you're using a DAW that isn't logic, I know why you'd want one if you use that obviously)?

Edit: Just making absolutely sure everyone is aware I'm asking out of interest, not to bash people's personal choices.

What's the question?

I think it was more of a dog whistle post to excite the more rabid users of 'both' (not really!) platforms. And as we can see, usual suspects coning on board and I expect maximum shitting on Mac users. Yummy!

Nope, was actually just trying to see things from a mac user's perspective as I did not understand why you'd want one, just like I clearly wrote. It's fine though, I assume you don't have any counterarguments since you didn't seem to bother to present any, so just accuse me of things I've already made it clear that I'm not trying to do at all.

[Dafydd Powell]

ASIO is literally the exact same thing as core audio, albeit with an unnoticeable amount more lag.

No

Want to explain why or just contradict me without presenting any evidence?

[Dafydd Powell]

So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac

The cost of development tools on Windows is somewhere beyond 1000€ for me. That exceeds the price of a decent Mac Mini. With Apple the development tools are free, hence I get the whole thing for less money. Just to put some perspective on the nonsensical pricing argument.

(There are free editions of development tools for Windows as well, but one needs to meet certain criteria to use them, which I do not.)

I get that, I already stated that this question is about musiic. I know that mac OS has big benefits for developers.

[Dafydd Powell]

Being a PC user all my life and having switched over to Mac, it wasn't a smooth transition. There were issues with my Macs as well, to a surprising degree. Audio stutters (Hello T2), software that won't run on a Mac, random crashes in Logic, terrible SSD performance depending on how you format it, dongle hell, you name it. The oh-so-familiar issues with PC happened on a Mac as well, just to a lesser degree.

I'll tell you what's changed: There's no time wasted in second guessing the problematic configuration. The hardware is taken out of the equation. Any recent MacBook pro is "good enough". And when you do get issues, it's likely seen by others too so A). You know you're not alone B). the issue is probably known and being looked at, or has workarounds

The common configuration of HW + SW shared by the millions of users make it easier to debug, root cause issues and discuss potential fixes/workarounds. SW makers also take your feedback seriously and it's probably easier for them to repro your issue. Mac, or any complex HW/SW is NOT immune to bugs. It's just that if I'm going to face issues, I'd rather be on a Mac than on a PC.

After nearly a year of having switched, my only regret is not switching to Mac years earlier.

I understand your views, but any recent PC that costs thousands like macbook pros do is probably good enough as well, unless you got ripped off.

[revvy]

I assume you don't have any counterarguments since you didn't seem to bother to present any

Your thread freely posed a question, I freely responded that I think it's a shit question that reads like trollbait. Online opinion exchange in a forum.

How would I present 'counterarguments' to a question?

If you mean present counterarguments to your 'argument', why you think PC is better, well, why would I waste a second dong that as I don't care which platform you prefer.

Anyway I replied now as you directly referred to me in your reply. I have given my opinion in this thread and will now leave you to engage with the other posters.

[elxsound]

I also don't care what system someone chooses, nor do I care why and as such, I couldn't be invested to provide counter arguments to something that I don't care to argue (since that's what you seem to be after).

This is an honest response to your honest question.

I do have a question for you (the OP)...

Why do you care?

Is it FOMO? I mean you seem to have things decided for yourself and that's what's most important.