BIG project: Sampling the old Windows Alchemy VST. Questions and Suggestions

[Gheldomel]

Hello KVR forums, this is my first post and I am hoping that I chose the best thread topic for this discussion. I am undertaking a giant project that I am inexperienced in, but passionate about completing and I was hoping to have a few questions answered, a few resources to have access to and to see if anyone else, like myself, loves the sounds of the now defunct Windows version of Alchemy but finds using the unsupported and outdated VST to be cumbersome and unreliable. Also, would trying to archive the original patches be a waste of time considering that OSX Logic users still have access to the synth.

What I want to do is sample every patch, note by note in a set amount of octaves (maybe 6 or go all out and sample the whole range), on each of the 8 remix pad settings, at all velocities, creating a monster sampler synth expansion. I haven't decided which sampler to use yet, although technically, it could be used with ANY VST sampler. I would love to preferably use a sampler that would allow for the layering of velocity changes to simulate the original synths velocity sensitivity, sort of like Melda productions Mdrummer allows for the adding of multiple velocity hits of drums to simulate a real kit being played with articulation. Anyone familiar with Alchemy will know that sampling all of the patches and all of its 8 pad articulations is a MASSIVE undertaking and their will be some obvious limitations regarding the morphing between each pad and being able to control the patches individual synthesized parameters, but I still think there are a TON of great sounds that could be used and pretty soon, no WIN system will be able to run the alchemy VST anymore. It will be lost to time and a relic of software synth history. Even now, half the time it crashes on me when I try to load the VST and I cant save the synth in any project I use it in.

Below, I have a few questions and a request for resources for anyone active on KVR that may still use this synth and has interest in this project or could offer any tips, suggestions or advice regarding sampling the synth or how I could set it up to sound as true to the original soft synth as possible.

RESOURCES

What I mean by resources is that I have most of the expansions released for Alchemy with the exception of 4. The ones that I am currently missing are:

-Water
-Biolabs Light Spaces
-Cameleon Remixed
-Dan Ooberman

There are also a few factory samples that I am missing but they are associated with these expansions. If I could, I'd just go to Camel Audio and purchase the packs myself but of course, thats not possible. If anyone has these lying around collecting dust on an old hard drive, I would love to have them to complete my collection for this project!

INQUIRY AND SUGGESTIONS


I had a few questions regarding my approach to this, as I am inexperienced in sampling a synth or any instrument for that matter. I know its possible and probably a lot easier to do with a synth that doesnt have as much control over sound and articulation as Alchemy does with its remix pads. My idea was that I sample every note, starting at the root of C, and holding any sustained patch for 10 Seconds or until it completes its evolution. I would try to sample each note at 4 different velocity levels and do this for each patch and its corresponding 8 remix pads. My questions are:

-Is it necessary to sample each and every note? Or could I go whole notes only and pitch up or down any half steps?
-Is there a sampler that would let me utilize the velocity articulations?
-is there any way that I could sample the 8 individual remix pads and then morph in between them using a sampler or sample based VST to mimic what Alchemy did?

Lastly, if anyone has any ideas or interest in the project and would like to contribute in any way, please feel free to offer suggestions. I dont expect anyone else to be crazy enough to want to participate in the laborious task of sampling this synth but, if anyone else is out there and has had the same thoughts about Alchemy and a fleeting notion of doing what Im about to do, and would like to contribute, the help would be welcomed. Especially if anyone owns the expansions I do not. I have a dropbox that can be used to exchange working files if the need arises.

EDIT

I appreciate the amount of engagement this post is getting but I've decided upon suggestion to go with recreating the patches VIA Sound design/Resynthesis rather than sampling the static patches. Also, in regards to the VST being unreliable on my system, I cant pinpoint the issue as I am running 64 bit Windows 10 on an i7 9700k with 32 GB of RAM and all of my software is licensed and legitimate. It doesn't consistently misbehave and I've used the VST in projects but, sometimes it will crash FL studio (build 20.7) and I've never used it in Reaper so I can't vouch for any other DAWs.

[deastman]

This seems ill-advised IMHO. The best parts of Alchemy were the ability to fluidly morph parameters, and you’re going to lose this in a sample library. If you absolutely must have Alchemy, how about saving up for a Mac Mini or build a hackintosh? Honestly, there are so many other great plugins in the world, why cling to this one ancient Windows instrument?

[Michael L]

I also love Alchemy but agree with deastman. Multiply the number of presets x morphs x notes x sample size and you end up with an impractically large library. I suggest studying the Alchemy architecture and learning how to make those sounds using other synths (Alchemy samples if needed). What made Alchemy great IMHO was the all-star team of sound designers, and if you learn how they created each layer, that effort will be more useful and rewarding.

[AnX]

loves the sounds of the now defunct Windows version of Alchemy but finds using the unsupported and outdated VST to be cumbersome and unreliable.

in what way?

last time i tried it, it worked fine (win7)

[Gheldomel]

in what way?

last time i tried it, it worked fine (win7)

my OS is Windows 10, that might be the issue. To be fair, not a lot of people use legacy OS on newer machines so over time it wont be compatible. but regardless, I think the previous responses gave me the answer I was looking for.

[aMUSEd]

It’s the in-between sounds and transitions that are most interesting in Alchemy - you’ll never capture that by sampling. For me the essence of Alchemy was always its performability, not something reducible to static sounds.

[Mushy Mushy]

in what way?

last time i tried it, it worked fine (win7)

my OS is Windows 10, that might be the issue. To be fair, not a lot of people use legacy OS on newer machines so over time it wont be compatible. but regardless, I think the previous responses gave me the answer I was looking for.

Windows 10 here and it has never not worked perfectly.

[Gheldomel]

This seems ill-advised IMHO. The best parts of Alchemy were the ability to fluidly morph parameters, and you’re going to lose this in a sample library. If you absolutely must have Alchemy, how about saving up for a Mac Mini or build a hackintosh? Honestly, there are so many other great plugins in the world, why cling to this one ancient Windows instrument?

I wouldn't buy a mac for one VST and I just put together a 3k build for music production, however, I've always preferred Windows OS to Macintosh. I do agree with you in the sense that Alchemy's main feature was the ability to morph between pads and also, that there are a TON of fantastic soft synths that could recreate the sounds minus the morphing feature, which I admittedly rarely used actively or automated, rather just liked having 8 patches in one. I think I may dig into the resource folders, copy the factory and expansion samples and recreate the patches in a more modern soft synth. Hell, maybe even get out HALion 6 and really go to town. I think the post below yours had an excellent point in stating that time would be better spent learning more about the sound design involved in making those patches, by trying to recreate them myself. I think they would be of more value to be shared in that way as well with other producers who may like some of the old Achemy patches.

To answer your question though, I wasn't necessarily clinging to Alchemy like some stubborn old head who couldn't let go of the past haha, I wasn't even around when Alchemy was new or relevant but, like most synths, it has a certain "character" to it which I personally favored for my more retro inspired production. it almost has an early 90s vibe to a lot of the patches that weren't EDM focused. I guess I should've been more clear in my OP but, this is exactly what I was looking for when I asked for feedback/suggestions. If someone else read this and thought about approaching this in a more efficient, less time consuming and tedious way, such as recreating the patches, that's absolutely beneficial to me

[Gheldomel]

Windows 10 here and it has never not worked perfectly.

It isn't consistent for me. sometimes it works, sometimes it crashes. I'm using it in a legitimate DAW (FL 20.7) and I've never tried opening it in Reaper as I mainly use Reaper for vocal tracking and mastering. Right now, it is open in FL with no issues which is why I made this post but, I'm not sure if the next time I try to load it, it wont crash. Not sure why, im running an i7 9700k on a 64 bit sytem with a 32 Gb Ram

[jdnz]

my OS is Windows 10, that might be the issue. To be fair, not a lot of people use legacy OS on newer machines so over time it wont be compatible.

as others have said works fine on win10 still - only on the mac would the new signing requirements make running the old (non-logic only) version problematic

[Gheldomel]

I also love Alchemy but agree with deastman. Multiply the number of presets x morphs x notes x sample size and you end up with an impractically large library. I suggest studying the Alchemy architecture and learning how to make those sounds using other synths (Alchemy samples if needed). What made Alchemy great IMHO was the all-star team of sound designers, and if you learn how they created each layer, that effort will be more useful and rewarding.

"I do agree with you in the sense that Alchemy's main feature was the ability to morph between pads and also, that there are a TON of fantastic soft synths that could recreate the sounds minus the morphing feature, which I admittedly rarely used actively or automated, rather just liked having 8 patches in one. I think I may dig into the resource folders, copy the factory and expansion samples and recreate the patches in a more modern soft synth. Hell, maybe even get out HALion 6 and really go to town. I think the post below yours had an excellent point in stating that time would be better spent learning more about the sound design involved in making those patches, by trying to recreate them myself. I think they would be of more value to be shared in that way as well with other producers who may like some of the old Achemy patches."

I also think I should close or edit this thread because I've decided to go the route of sound design and resynthesis but comments are all referring to my OP previous to the suggestions made.

[Gheldomel]

It’s the in-between sounds and transitions that are most interesting in Alchemy - you’ll never capture that by sampling. For me the essence of Alchemy was always its performability, not something reducible to static sounds.

I think most would agree with you. I stated in a previous response that I admittedly never used the morphing feature actively with Alchemy but more as a sound selection, having a choice of 8 variations per patch but, I don't think I am going to sample the synth and rather, try recreating the patches via Sound design in something like HALion

[aMUSEd]

It’s the in-between sounds and transitions that are most interesting in Alchemy - you’ll never capture that by sampling. For me the essence of Alchemy was always its performability, not something reducible to static sounds.

I think most would agree with you. I stated in a previous response that I admittedly never used the morphing feature actively with Alchemy but more as a sound selection, having a choice of 8 variations per patch but, I don't think I am going to sample the synth and rather, try recreating the patches via Sound design in something like HALion

Yeah I think it’s best to see the 8 variations per patch as something like 8 stations on a train journey between A and X - if all you see of the journey is the 8 stations then you are missing the best bits - there are really endless variations within each patch and the journey as a whole is what is worth experiencing musically.

[MikeCallon]

in what way?

last time i tried it, it worked fine (win7)

my OS is Windows 10, that might be the issue. To be fair, not a lot of people use legacy OS on newer machines so over time it wont be compatible. but regardless, I think the previous responses gave me the answer I was looking for.

Windows 10 here and it has never not worked perfectly.

Same here, I even had to do a full re-install recently due to an unrecoverable 'profile' error on Windows 10 (man that was painful, restore points now done monthly!).... runs perfectly and in fact I've been using it even more after converting a bunch of my old Akai CD's to SFZ. Some of the 'default' settings applied to the remix pads when loading the SFZ's really throw up some pleasing results. I'm soooo glad I didn't sell it on when Camel sold out to Apple

[Michael L]

...try recreating the patches via Sound design in something like HALion

FYI, you can buy the Alchemy 1 tutorial videos for $12 from Groove3.